32 thoughts on “Regional rankings”

1. They’ve done it again.

   Hope men are 12-2 in-region. Not 10-2 like the NCAA lists them. I am not sure what games are missing but this is an error that might catapult Hope to second in region.

   I suggest fans of other teams double check records as well.

2. It’s possible that with the new men’s basketball leadership in the NCAA office that they are backing off the ridiculous 2007 assertion that Carthage/Hope be a regional game.

   However, I cannot find one other game that should be non-regional. I assume that the NCAA has missed Roanoke, but what do I know?

   As in previous years we’ll look through all the records here and communicate to them where we differ.

3. OK, here are my disagreements with the NCAA records. I agree with the site on these:
   Occidental is 13-1, Cal Lutheran is 15-3, Wheaton is 13-5, Hope is 12-2, DePauw is 15-3, Messiah is 13-5, Stevens is 19-3.

   Now Middlebury is another story. Both the NCAA and D3Hoops have 16-4 (overall 17-5). D3Hoops lists the Merchant Marine game as regional, and the Hamilton game as not regional (we’ve discussed the latter issue and it depends on which web site you use). I can’t see the Merchant Marine game as regional (260 miles, different regions and different admin regions), so I’m assuming that the NCAA is listing Hamilton as regional.

4. Oxy’s overall record is 18-2, not 18-3. I believe that the Tigers’ regional record is 13-1.

5. We also believe Oxy’s regional record to be 13-1. I expect the games with La Sierra are the culprits and we’ll add that to the list of discrepancies.

6. I have a question/point of clarificaiton as we get these discussions started.

   Concerning the women:

   “In-region results versus Regionally Ranked Teams”.

   South Region #1 HPU has a win over West #4 Chapman.
   South Region #2 McMurry has a win over West #6 St Thomas.

   Those are in-region games because all four teams are in Administrative Region #4.

   Does the committee consider those “results”* in the deliberations?

   (*The Handbook does not say wins or losses.)

   Thanks!

7. http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/governance/division_III/membership_information/Current_EPR.pdf

   I understand La Sierra to be in its second year provisional. They had to repeat a year.

   It might actually help with the OWP!

8. On the women’s side, I am very surprised that Wash U is ranked ahead of IWU in the Central. IWU is 19-2, vs Wash U’s 15-5 in-region. IWU is hurt by a very bad OWP, but the Titans beat the Bears head-to-head (by 18 on a neutral court).

   I haven’t look through this enough to know yet, but any other examples of the OWP/OOWP being used as extensively as this IWU/Wash U women’s example?? I mean, they used it to trump both the in-region record and the head-to-head result.

9. Thanks for finding that, Ralph. The membership committee has become a little less forthcoming in recent years and it’s been hard to find information sometimes.

   Oxy’s new OWP is .511 and OOWP is .548.

10. We (SUNY Old Westbury) are in the ATLANTIC region

    Our record as of 2/10/08 is listed as 13-8 but we should be listed as 12-9.

    If the regional rankings were done according to how teams are currently listed, we should be 11-4 in our region as of 2/10/08. If we were listed as 13-6(the NEW Paltz and Plattsburgh losses and 2 Purchase wins) that would be fine too except for the fact that New Paltz, Plattsburgh, and Purchase are in the East region. Purchase is in our conference but they are in a different region? I cannot imagine winning 2 conference games and it not be counted in the regional standings but they count 2 losses from a team out of our region but in the same region as the team from our conference.

    Furthermore, St. Joseph (LI) is also in our conference and they beat Purchase but the win was counted as a Region win. By the way, St. Joseph (LI) has a longer distance to travel than we do in order to get to Purchase if that mattered….

11. Check the definition of a regional game. You’ll find the New Paltz, Plattsburgh and Purchase games are all correctly counted.

    http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=44

12. Anyone seeing Ohio Wesleyan getting an at-large bid to the NCAA? I say being fourth in the region they have a shot if they can get to the NCAC finals.

13. Definitely possible. Regional winning pct. could be higher, though.

14. OWU lost to Earlham today, damaging loss to pool C hopes.

15. Ok, second question. Say Wooster loses in the NCAC finals to OWU or Witt. Are they a lock for an at large?

16. It could only happen in Division III. The Hope women, No. 1 in the nation in two different polls, and No. 2 in its own region. Nothing against Thomas More, they’ve got a pretty impressive resume of wins (DePauw and Wilmington, among them) but I’m scratching my head as to how they’re ranked ahead of the Flying Dutch, who have both higher opponents’ winning percentage and higher OOWP. Help me out here.

17. If Howard Payne makes it through the ASC undefeated, what are the chances of them hosting more than 1 game this year. Remember last year, in the only game they were given, HPU set an all time DIII attendance record. I know the community is ready to pack the house again.

18. Pat or anyone else in the loop,

    In terms of potentially wrong regional records for a number of teams will there be any word from the NCAA as to where the discrepancies are and who is wrong or will it be a matter of waiting until the new rankings on Wednesday to see if teams like Hope, Wheaton, etc have corrected records? (Or at least corrected in the view of this board).

19. York men are 17-4 in the region after yesterday, those 4 losses are to Messiah, Gettysburg, Wesley, and Hood. They have lost 6 games on the year. The other two losses were to Nazareth and Roanoke, Nazareth is in the East, Roanoke is in the South

20. Nazareth is a regional game. Please read the definitions I linked earlier in the week!

    Hope Nut — no idea if they’ll respond to my e-mail or just silently incorporate/ignore it.

21. Nothing against the Great Lakes reps on either the men’s or women’s side, but there seems to be some difficulty interpreting the numbers. Or perhaps they are weighing other things more highly than other regions.

22. Robert Lane, I think that the quality of the old court in the Brownwood Coliseum was the disqualifying feature for a sectional at HPU last season. Remember that they did host the second round game. That is what I deduced from a Brownwood Bulletin newspaper article last summer.

    I think that HPU is in good shape to host, especially if there are some travel orphans that need to be flown somewhere.

23. I’m sure hoping HPU will get more that just one game this year. Is there any other school in the nation that can get 4,000+ fans out to a game? New court, new backboards, clocks, etc. I doubt there is a better location in the country to play DIII basketball. We have 3 major airports within 3 hours of Brownwood. Brownwood has more than enough motel rooms for accomodating a tournament, unlike some places where traveling fans have to spend the night several miles away from the host city. Hopefully HPU will continue winning out the ASC, and the DIII will award an undefeated team with some home games.

24. Robert, if the NCAA can make money on flying three teams to Brownwood on the gate alone, then HPU might get to host the sectional.

    Last year, they only had to fly two teams to Decorah, IA. (I think that Washington St Louis was bussed.) Playing the game in Brownwood would have meant three flights. When I saw that HPU would not host the sectionals, I was glad that HPU was not playing at Washington St Louis. Unfortunately, the Lady Jackets did not make it that far.

25. How are the sites for the men’s and women’s final 4 determined? Do cities make bids? Has it ever been held in the west or south?

26. Robert –

    Yes, cities make bids to host and the NCAA Championship committee makes the selection. On the men’s side there’s such a strong tradition and procedure established in Salem, VA that it would take a rather remarkable bid by another community to take it from them.

    The women’s one has rotated every two years for the past decade. Previous hosts were Danbury (CT), Terre Haute (IN), Virginia Beach (VA), Springfield (MA) and currently Holland (MI).

27. Also to point out, when a city wins a bid… it is for two years at a time.

28. Thanks for the info. Sounds like some cities west of the Mississippi need to do some bidding.

29. Perhaps, but keep the geography of Division III in mind — about 6% of the basketball programs are in the Mountain and Pacific Time Zones and there aren’t all that many more west of the Mississippi altogether.

30. I see your point, but with that in mind, DIII is telling everyone in the west, “It doesn’t matter how good your program is, it doesn’t matter how large your city’s bid is, nor crowds, you’ll most likely never host the tournament because most teams are in the North and East. I still like the way the NAIA used to hold their BB tournament in KC (they still may, I don’t know) every year. That way there are no decisions having to be made every year or two, on who hosts games, and where. Everyone knows that if they are good enough, they’ll go to KC. Also, no team has home court advantage.

31. Perhaps D-III is telling people in the West they should actually apply before complaining about not getting chosen.

32. Good point. Hopefully someone will. Thanks for your insight.

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