While Pat and Gordon were pretty darn close in their predictions, nailing 31 of 32 teams and missing on Whitworth (UW-Eau Claire made it instead), it’s clear we’d grown accustomed to the committee being fairly predictable.
Perhaps it’s because there was only one West Coast team in the field, but whatever the reason, they were anything but this time around. The bracket has been revealed, and some curveballs have been thrown.
Ithaca at Mount Union, Redlands at St. John’s and Widener at Case Western Reserve were among the matchups we did not see coming. You can throw Olivet at Central in there too. With the proximity of so many of the teams, the committee’s matchups did not hold to the regions. For years they have not had to, but often they simply shake out that way. In Saturday’s first round, we’ll have an East Region team at a North, a North at a West in two different brackets and two South Region teams who could have been moved to the East playing each other. And then Redlands flying halfway across the country … but still Texas vs. Texas.
Without further ado, the floor is open for your reactions.
BTW, in 2002, after John Carroll won the East Region?
They lost to MUC 57-19 in the semifinals! OUCH!
Dukefinadv,
No oxymoron, really. But perhaps in trying to be gentle to our Eastern brethren by using “elite quality” I was semantically imprecise.
My point, of course, was that the East’s presumed balance doesn’t equal strength.
I think I was still recovering from whiplash at the idea about MUC having it easy in the OAC compared to the East powerhouses. One of the stranger posts I’ve seen for a while.
Best of luck with the young hoopster. Get him shooting with this usual non-shooting hand ASAP ….
Nice post on the vets too. On this day especially, we should remember where the real “battles” and “wars” are.
Ron
I don’t think you got my point.
Mary Hardin-Baylor is ranked 5 in the last D3 national poll. Trinity is ranked 13. So, if the NCAA agreed with these rankings, MHB should be the highest number 2 seed, not a 4 or a 3. Trinity should be the highest 4 seed. Based on the national understanding of their quality, and what I see on the field, these teams should not meet until late in the tournament.
The current Division III playoff system means that all of the teams in Texas have to play one another in the first round, no matter where they are seeded. Since Trinity routinely travels to Colorado, Georgia, And Tennesse for conference games this stikes me as a bit short sighted.
Wow, 100 comments and counting on Day 1 of the bracket being out. Wait til all the people who only have the internet at work get here tomorrow 🙂
OK, so I was asked about Whitworth and UWEC by D3forme at 11:14.
I don’t see the economic advantages, given that a flight to Spokane from L.A./Orange County/Ontario must be cheaper to charter than one to Minnesota, while SJU could bus to several other places (or host). I also don’t peg the committee as people who would do that — remember, they’re all D3 coaches and admins themselves, not a faceless bunch in the NCAA office in Indianapolis. You have to figure they would be professional enough to try to set the best field, if for no other reason than they would want their peers to act the same way if it was their own school under consideration.
So that leaves something they saw in the criteria, or some reason they felt UWEC was better than Whitworth. I’m not certain what it was, but let’s examine.
We know Whitworth had the better in-region win pct., while UWEC had the OWP/OOWP edge. Their common opponent was a wash (both beat UW-Stout, 17-14 and 23-21). There was no h2h game, and their results against regionally-ranked opponents don’t seem to bear much out, as UWEC lost to UWW and Whitworth lost to Redlands.
It’s possible, even probable, that a decision between these two, given the above primary criteria, then went to the secondary criteria listed here: http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?answer&category=Playoffs&id=25
The only thing there that I really see that would make much difference is overall winning percentage, which would mean both teams are .800. Remember, they did have the same record overall at 8-2.
I don’t think the non-Division results come into play, but if they did, UWEC beat a D2 team and an NAIA playoff team.
If a team besides UWW snuck into the committee’s regional rankings, then that would somehow make sense.
Perhaps UWW and the WIAC have solidified their elite status over the past two years to the point where a loss to UWW is not quite like a loss to Redlands. History is not supposed to be part of the process, but even just looking at it this year, you might say that team is so good that it’s not like other losses. But UWEC also had the UWRF loss which is in theory worse than both of Whitworth’s.
Even the working theory that the committee wanted to reward teams who play in tough conferences doesn’t hold a lot of water because the NWC is generally regarded as a tough conference. Not quite as good as the WIAC, but enough to tip the scales to a runner-up?
I can’t really figure it for UWEC, on the criteria or slightly off it, but I can also say that the comparison is not overwhelmingly in favor of Whitworth either. So if it’s not a no-brainer, somebody saw or felt or considered something to tip the scales, and maybe it was a very close decision but one that had to be made.
Kenneth,
Welcome to the D3 playoffs.
First, the D3 rankings have no bearing on the playoffs, so throw No. 5 and No. 13 out.
The committee makes its own rankings. You can logically assume that they are somewhat like ours, but then again … UMHB was a four seed in its own region, so maybe not.
Where Trinity plays during the regular season also has no bearing on where they go in the playoffs.
Division III gets 3.5% of the NCAA March Madness TV money (and perhaps other earnings; don’t quote me on the source) to stage all of its championships. In EVERY sport.
Therefore, since D3 can’t cover its own costs with gate receipts, we are actually lucky to have a playoff that allows 32 teams in the field and uses flights when necessary. Basically, the committee is strongly directed to keep flights in the first round to an absolute minimum.
These are flights basically paid for by our share of money we had no hand in earning, as is everything from officials to security to whatever … see the handbook for the gory details.
As noted elsewhere, it’s not a real travesty this year because a 3-6 game or a 4-5 game with Trinity at UMHB was something people expected. It wasn’t like last year when UMHB was a 2 seed and HSU a 3 and played in round 1.
D3Keith:
If you think my comments are idiotic….just say so, that’s ok, instead of the subtle “he’s a moron” digs planted in your next 6 posts.
And I cant really have this debate by keybaord, because “points” trying to be made get lost. I did not ‘say’ many of the things you claim I said, and I did make the point (that MUC would still beat the East teams week in and week out) that you adopted for your own to use against my comments.
Comparing the play-off numbers to my argument is apples to oranges. I was simply commenting about the level of play and competition on a broader and year to year basis. I made a very general statement, and is typical this time of year, all the more informed posters come crashing down with “Oh my god, he did not just say MUC is weak did he???” Well no I did not. MUC is great, they have been and will be.
It is so complicated to have an opinion on here that most dont agree with, because everyone will take what you post, change it and ‘put words in your mouth’ to justify their own attitude about what your opinion was.
Somebody’s post above made my point quite clear though…MUC has beaten the ‘strong’ OAC teams this year and mostly on the road by something like 200-0 combined. WARNING: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION D3KEITH AND MUC NATION: MUC WOULD NOT DO THAT YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT IN THE EAST (NOTE KEITH i SAID EAST, NOT EMPIRE 8).
And then if you (SJF) do happen to march into Alliance in December in the Final 4 and hang in their with the Giant until 5 minutes left in the game…when EVERYONE else loses by 45 points, then there is some other point to be made…like MUC rushed for 378 and SJF only kept it close on the scoreboard. Of course that is where they kept it close…It is the “SCOREBOARD” that the winners always allude to when the game is over…so why not OK for SJF to revel a bit in that particular scoreboard.
I said I would take the heat for my post….and I will. It is ok to believe that MUC will not win the next 4 games in the same fashion that they trounced the OAC greats like Capital, Ohio Northern and Co. this year…
Let me state this in another manner.
Were I setting the odds in Vegas, I would place the over/under of the cumulative margin of victory for MUC in the next three games at 100 points.
The East Region would take the under, but I bet the influx of bets from the rest of the country would be so overwhelming, that the margin would creep towards 120.
I hope that concept explains to you East fans what the rest of D3 thinks about of East Region football. This is not dismissing the parity, the fan support, the traditions, or the evolving D3cast network of games. I think that the East is even more provincial than we Texans about our football.
Friends, I look forward to the MUC Regional. 😉
The good thing about the East playing MUC is that we can hardly look any worse than the OAC has looked already! If the East loses every game by 50, so what? That would be better than half the OAC! Though I am sure you’ll all come up with excuses, saying that MUC put in their QBs little brother or something.
I preferred the projected pairing of playing Curry in the first round, but since that isn’t the actual case, and we’d probably have to play MUC ANYWAY to win a National Title, might as well step up first.
Go BOMBERS!
D3 Keith – are you kidding me? You think MUC wanted the game to be so close last year against SJFC? The reason they did not throw the ball was (1) because they couldn’t and (2) because they were having a lot of success running the ball. Saying that MUC only ran the ball because they knew they were going to win the game is ridiculous. Fisher had the ball with under 7 minutes left in the game with a chance to take the lead. MUC is a great team who will destroy a team in the 1st quarter if they can. They do not just “play” with a team because they know they are going to win – they’re too good to do that.
Also, you think SJFC was ranked 4th last year just because they played MUC close in the semifinal game? SJFC had to beat a couple of highly ranked teams to get there (Springfield, Rowan) and then they gave MUC their toughest game of the year! So SJFC DESERVED to be ranked 4th last year!
D3 Keith – did you attend MUC? It sure sounds like it!
Go Ithaca! Go Fisher!
Why is it that everyone thinks the East is so weak? The argument that the East has not won the Stagg Bowl since 1991 is foolish – MUC has won it 8 of the past 11 years – so that takes us back to 1995. And I believe that someone already stated that Ithaca won it in 1991. Not too bad if you take MUC out of the picture!
I will admit – I know very little about the schools in D3 football with the exception of the teams in the East. But I can tell you one thing – the East is pretty good. Hopefully the playoffs this year will prove that fact.
I like to think that our veterans fought for our right to make idiots of ourselves on a football blog. Mission accomplished!
I’ve been lurking for awhile listening to this whole “East” debate and people going over whether Mount Union would have difficulty in this region. I’ve been coming to Bomber games since 1988 and here’s my take:
Mount Union in 160-4 over the last 12 years
Mount Union has won eight of the last 11 national titles
Most of the games Mount Union plays aren’t even close
With all due respect to my fellow East dwellers, we’re missing the forest for the trees here. You don’t win 160 out of 164 just because of the level of your competition. You win on that level because you are easily better than anyone else. Mount Union beats ranked teams, on the road, or in the playoffs, by obscene margins. If you put them in the E8, they’d go 10-0. Easily. Same with the LL. Do I “know” this for a fact? Nope. But find me some evidence to suggest otherwise. 160-4 speaks for itself
I’m probably the biggest Bomber homer alive, and I know a few of the guys on this team. They’re great guys and work incredibly hard. And they don’t have a chance on Saturday. If this game were close than 40 points, I’d be stunned.
I will make one comment regarding a specific post.
SJFC81– There have been 15 national championship games since 1991. Mount Union has won 8 of them, but it’s not like the East has been winning those other years. Even with Mount Union out, they aren’t winning.
Here’s a hypothetical question. I say this will all due respect, because I think Mount Union does what they need to do every year, and it’s clear they win and are classy doing it.
Is Mount Union, on the whole, good for D3 Football? What I mean is, is it a positive when one team wins year after year after year, usually in blowout fashion? Is it good for a sporting institution to have one team so dominant compared to the others? Does it help or hurt the exposure of D3 football as a whole?
Again, I’m not ripping on MUC, or saying they are doing anything wrong. But when you go 160-4, that’s unbeatable. Not in a literal sense maybe, since they do have four losses. But for all intents and purposes, MUC is unbeatable. I’m sure for those 4 teams who beat them over the last 12 years, the wins were phenominal for the, but what about the other 160 games, most of which aren’t even close? Is it a good thing–again for D3 on the whole–that MUC is so dominant?
Ric – You find my post about putting vile comments about the lowest tier of NCAA College Football in perspective relative to what yesterday and today represent on the grand scale of truly meaningful life………you just don’t get it and I’ll keep you in my prayers!! cjdel10, Mr. Ypsi, Pat Coleman and repete………thanks for having my back and understanding where I was (and am ) coming from.
Ralph / Keith – Thanks for your comments/opinions about how the Mount would stack up against a top tier D2 team. Ralph, wasn’t App State about a 25-30 point underdog at Michigan?? Let’s ask our best, just one time (as plenty of other D3 teams do), to carry the flag and pull an App State vs. Chadron, or, on a “shock the world level”, Youngstown State!! If they run the table in these playoffs (I’ll give you the field) and win each game by 3+ touchdowns, challenge yourselves to see how truly great you are……as App State did at the big house!! I’m sure the players, to a man, would love to give it a try!!
Keith – I’m a little surprised at your comment (to Ric) about “not sifting through the crap”. I’ve got a good friend who makes over a million dollars a year (four hours a day!!) on an all sports radio station in Philadelphia (WIP 610) and I once asked him about inane callers. He told me that it was the volume of these inane callers who keep the phone lines lit up, allow the sales guys to charge what they charge advertisers (due to their helping boost the ratings) and creating a back-and-forth buzz……….and if not for this, he would still be a writer making 1/10 of his current salary!! Keith, if this board was only for PHd level (or mensa level) D3 football high acumen types (I’d be out!!)………it would be like what the world will look like when The Rapture occurs……a pretty empty place. Take the comments from your final post as a true barometer…..”Wow, 100 comments and counting on Day 1 of the bracket being out. Wait til all the people who only have the internet at work get here tomorrow”. How many would it have been if you take out ric’s “crap”? But I still love ya’ my fellow suffering Eagles fan!!
Time to get to the hedge fund and figure out what to do after last week!!
I think there are several teams in the East that can beat Mount Union.
In checkers, or Rock/Paper/Scissors, or Jeopardy. Football? Well, good luck. You’ll have your chances.
Bombers798891, you raise a good question. I think Mount Union on the whole is good for Division III football in a couple of ways:
1) It provides a measuring stick for the rest of the division to try to stand up to.
2) It seems to be one of the few non-News-of-the-Weird stories that the national media can tell about Division III.
What bothers me is when you come into a season with seemingly no hope that anyone can beat them. When the national championship is a foregone conclusion, that’s bad. I wouldn’t mind per se if Mount Union won the title every year, as long as there was some doubt as to whether it were possible. We talked about this at the end of the 2006 season, that this could be a preordained season, and that isn’t good.
“I think there are several teams in the East that can beat Mount Union.”
Watch and learn, grasshopper, watch and learn. Until you see the Raiders in person, you have no idea what you’re in for. Make a trip to Alliance if you have the chance and you’ll find out what most of the rest of us have over the years – they simply ARE that good.
For those saying “hey so and so played MUC close last year”, my experience has been if you actually do manage to play the Raiders close one year all it does is focus them to come beat the tar out of you the next. Maybe this year will be different but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Should a team from the East defeat MUC, I’ll be the first to come here, congratulate that team, and admit I was wrong. BTW, anyone who thinks MUC is my team clearly hasn’t been around the South Region boards since the site was created.
The beauty of D3 football is that we get to see the truth play out on the field. I’m not sure the teams from the East will like the truths that will likely come to fruition in the next few weeks. Here is one Purple Raider stat to chew on. In the 2nd quarter against Heidelberg back on Sept 29, MUC gave up an innocent field goal. Since then, they have scored 326 points and have yet to give up a single point. And yes, four of those opponents were ranked in the d3football.com top 25. This is probably the best MUC team ever, and perhaps it’s one of the best D3 football teams ever assembled. We’ll see.
That said, football is football, and anything can happen. St John Fisher played MUC very tough last year (almost as tough as Capital, who probably would have won the Stagg Bowl if no MUC existed last year), and I’d expect someone in the region to give MUC a good game this year, too.
The earlier talk about the weakness of the OAC is ridiculous. The #2 team, Capital, is probably worse than the #2 OAC team most years…due mostly to injuries. But I’d take MUC, John Carroll, Baldwin Wallace, Capital, and Ohio Northern in a 5-game series with the 5 best from ANY D3 conference in the land. But alas, they don’t hand out trophies to the best conference; the prize goes to the best team.
Congrats to all 32 teams on achieving what some 200 or so teams did not do – make the field of 32. All 32 teams have a chance to win it, unlike 30 of the best 32 “bigtime universities” come January 7. May the best D3 team win, whether they be from Ohio, Texas, New York, Wisconsin, or wherever.
sjfc81: St John Fisher played Mount very tough last year, but you’re not the toughest team (Whitewater) that Mount played against. Nor was SJF the toughest game (17-14 over Capital) that Mount played. No shame in being one of the Top 5 in the nation! That’s not a slam against them, it’s just that Whitewater and Capital were a little better LAST YEAR.
Who is really in the Top 5 this year? Who knows. I will guarantee that Capital isn’t one of them and that Mount Union is. Whitewater and SJF might be. Mary-Hardin Baylor? Hard to judge them since their regular season is built on crushing average teams and getting drilled by Whitewater. Central? They’re 10-0 but doing so with smoke & mirrors. But that’s what the next 5 weeks will decide.
As a MUC guy, I can honestly say that I love Mount being moved to the East Region this year. It adds a HUGE amount of intrigue and excitement to what otherwise would have been a very boring trip thru the North Region to the Semi’s. The North Region is exceptionally weak this year due to key injuries (QB and others) at Wheaton, Capital and Wabash. Which are3 of the regions historically toughest teams. Heading into the selection show, I would have bet my house that no one in the North Region would have been within 30 points of MUC in the first 3 rounds. Partly because those teams are young, the others are injured and all of them know they are about to get crushed.
Now we get to face brand new teams coming from good conferences with a lot of enthusiasm and history, something the North Region couldn’t produce this year.
There have been years where the North Region has been very, very good. But this isn’t one of them. I’d be beyond shocked if Whitewater doesn’t win their first 3 games by 20-30 points each.
I think if you look at some of the great sports dynasties, you would have to think that they were all good for their sports. Yankees, Celtics, UCLA, etc. Eventually it demands that others get better, and they usually do. I believe the quality of D-III football has improved immensely since Mount Union started their run in the mid 90’s. No different than the quality of college basketball since the 60-70’s Bruin dominated. Eventually Mount won’t be the odds on favorite “every” year, but rather one of the top teams every year. And that will have made D-III better.
sjfc81,
MUC had decent success passing against St John Fisher last year in the semis. What you fail to notice is that they didn’t even need to pass. KMIC ran for 370+ yards and averaged just about 9 yards per carry. When you have a runner who does not fumble and eats up yards like that only a moron would pass when you have the lead.
As for this year I think the regional games will be interesting. The most intersting part may be if MUC can continue its defensive string of shutouts. You see the 1st team defense has given up a total of 3 points this year. In total the defense has scored more points than the opponets offense. That is one sick stat.
HScoach – I was very proud that SJFC finished 4th last year – definitely no shame in being the fourth best team in D3 football. I was just disappointed that D3 Keith implied they were ranked 4th just because they played MUC tough in the semifinal game (and he also said that MUC could have beaten SJFC by more if they wanted to). I think SJFC DESERVED to be ranked 4th last year because the were a very good team who had a very good season, not just one very good game!
Dukefinadv,
I don’ think Keith was agreeing with ric, merely just “quoting” him. apparently they didn’t teach him much punctuation at his alma mater, Randolph Macon!! 🙂
after one day to get over the disappointment concerning the Whitworth Pirates I decided to get registered and send my first comments to D3. Thanks for the comments concerning why UWEC over the bucs even though it appears that politics, penny pinching, and lack of respect was the factors. I am glad that next year the NWC champ gets in automatically though my senior starter at Whitworth will not see this. It is a great life lessen that life can blind side you even when you have for the most part done everything asked of you. Yes we needed to beat Redlands but to lose to an eventual league champ in game one with replacements on the o for great all american players was understandable. To know that Linfield would have made it by beating the bucs after losing to the NWC number 5 team is tough. All of you seniors that I care for so much need to hold your heads high and remember your achievments. You have made the Whitworth name a power to be dealt with. The great recruits that now WANT to play buc football will keep the tradition alive.
First off all, people need to quit trying to find ways to bash on mount. Just except the fact there the best until proven otherwise. Second who started this whole weak east bull sh??. Its really not. St Johns is a great team as is St John Fisher. Id put them up against any team in the other bracketts. Whitewater and mary harden baylor, maybe capital, but apparently if your from the oac you suck. I think the ncaa did a good job.. Go Mount..
Pat-
I think you raise an interesting point on the whole “It gives people a story to talk about” angle. Certainly, we can’t expect Trinity to give us 15 laterals EVERY week right? 🙂
But, as a fellow journalist, I pose this response: What’s new about the story? Are we getting to the point where the media can recycle the same old “Mount Union is the best team you may never hear of” story and just update the numbers?
Let’s suppose they win it all this year as we all think they will. They haven’t broken their consecutive wins record. They’ve already won three national titles in a row twice. Kehres already has (I believe) the best winning percentage in college football history. So what changes this year? Or next year if it happens again?
Mainjack– You’re right. I do think the rest of college football may eventually catch up with them at some point. The real “problem” with this dynasty isn’t simply that MUC wins the titles every year, but they go undefeated almost every year, and, there’s almost a sense of, “Wow, they NEVER lose” A great baseball team loses 60 games out of 162. A great basketball team may lose 25-30. Pro football? Maybe 50. Mount Union has lost four. Also, the regular season is a formality. Is it one loss in the last 13 regular seasons? Again, there’s just this sense of “it’s inevitable”
Two more questions, still hypothetical and meant with all due respect:
1. Should MUC play an upper division school with their out-of-conference game(s)? What better way to help D III football than showing that they can beat the big boys?
2. Should MUC consider moving up to a higher division? This isn’t a “for the good of the rest of D III” argument, but one for the school itself. I don’t know if the school (or Alliance for that matter) could support the move in terms of attendance, etc. But, at what point do you start looking for a bigger challenge?
Pat–
Adressing the other part of your post, the “measuring stick” argument, I will have to respectfully disagree. Isn’t the issue that, when measure against MUC, everyone comes up short? How do you compare? By saying you “only” lost to MUC by 10 points instead of 20?
Yes, four teams have beaten MUC in the last 12 years. But, I would argue that:
1. Those teams already knew they at least had a decent shot and were elite teams, since with the exception of the Ohio Northern game, they all came deep in the playoffs.
2. The wins, while great, really don’t change things. For example, in 2001 SJF came to IC and lost 52-0. Three years later, they beat IC. They beat them again in 2006 and 2007. Was Ithaca a measuring stick for St. John Fisher’s rise to glory? Most likely. And we can now see the results. Fisher has surpassed Ithaca. But have any of the teams who beat, or even hang with MUC do that? It’s still pretty much MUC on a level all their own.
Let me rephrase — instead of measuring stick, it gives them something to shoot for.
You already know St. John Fisher gained a measure of respect with its performance last year.
I hesitate to follow you down this road because it seems like the next stop is “let’s move Mount Union out of Division III” and I don’t want to be anywhere near that discussion.
Don’t forget to listen to our podcast for more analysis of the brackets.
Just for the record, Mount has not gone undefeated as many times recently as is being mentioned. In the past four completed seasons, they only went undefeated once. They can be beat, it just takes a great effort to do it.
As far as moving up a division, that has been hashed out many times. The only determining factor on moving up is whether or not you want to give athletic scholarships. As long as you believe that you want students first and athletes second, then you should stay at D-III. And I believe all of the D-III schools want this, otherwise they would give the players money and move up.
Okay … almost everyone agrees MUC will dominate and win them all – likely by 40 point shutouts. There is no argument about that if you look at the stats. So …are there any other games leading up to the eventual crowning of the king that ANYONE can comment on? After all, it’s the journey – or as CBS says every year – “the one shining moment” – that generates enthusiasm and history ! HSCOACH talked about the “exceptionally weak North Region” due to injuries at the historically tough schools. Maybe it’s time for the elitist snobs of this D3 post to start looking at the “newcomers” to the dance and talking about the entire field. These are the teams that will generate new fan bases and new interest for D3 football even if they are only around 1 or 2 games. Anyone think that Butler basketball doesn’t generate tremendous interest after their trips to the Sweet 16 in the past 4 years ? Isn’t Gonzaga now a household word because of their NEW history ? Maybe MUC wins the next 8 championships — but the teams they destroy on the way will be new faces … and who knows who will one day be a giant killer ! Some may opine the north is weak — but the games are all very interesting match-ups with great story lines … much better drama than MUC vs. anyone !
As I read all this about Mount playing a Higher Division School such as Ashland, Youngstown State etc, I have to think those schools would never consent to playing Mount Union….why would they and thus endure the embarrassment that Michigan did? To me Mount would have nothing to prove by playing them, meaning I know they are good….the opposing schools would have every thing to lose….Will never happen.
As for Mount moving up to a higher division….why? They are a small school (2000 or so) in a small town….23,000 or so. They have no desire to move up. Football is just one of the things Good about Mount.They are first and foremost a good place for a young adult to get a life preparing education…And isn’t that what D3 College is all about….playing football in an atmosphere conducive to making you a person better prepared for the “real world”
Enough ……looking forward to Mount playing some teams different than they usually play….Good luck to all….Go Purple Raiders!
Mainjack, yes they have. Seven times in the last eleven years as a matter of fact.
1996
1997
1998
2000
2001
2002
2006
Hey, MUC “can” be beaten, and I hope my Bombers do it this Saturday. But, I’m also a realist. Enough of MUC for now. Any guesses on how the rest of the E8 (Fisher and Hartwick) do?
Bomber,
Yes, that’s true, but my point was only once in the past 4 years, which means other programs are getting better.
Mainjack,
I don’t know if “better” is accurate.
2003: St John’s beats Mt. Union, goes 7-3 next season. The four years before they won the game, they lost nine times. They’ve lost seven times and counting since. Pretty similar.
2004: MHB beats MUC. MHB loses in first round of playoffs following year. MHB had lost four times the previous three seasons. They have lost six times and counting since. Not an improvement.
2005: Ohio Northern beats MUC, goes 6-4 and 7-3 the next two seasons.
Therin, in my mind lies the problem. The teams that beat Mount Union were already elite teams, but also, the victory didn’t springboard them into dynasty mode. Heck, two of the three teams missed the playoffs the next season and the other team had a one and done. The teams didn’t improve after beating MUC. All three teams did WORSE the next season.
That’s a problem. I don’t get the sense that these teams are beating MUC because they’ve arrived as a consistent challenger to the throne. They had a great year, played a great game and won, sure. But after that, all three teams fell back down to earth, missing the playoffs, etc. But MUC remains there. I want to see another team seriously challeng MUC on a steady basis before I believe that D 3 has gotten better as a whole
Hey mainjack, what college are you from? I might have missed it. A east school like me?
All dynasties come to an end eventually, whether we’re talking real life history or sports. I’m a Purple Raider fan and I am enjoying their current run, but eventually they won’t be the best team in D3 football year in and year out. Who knows what will lead to their eventual “fall” …Coach Kehres getting a multi-million dollar offer and moving up… coach retiring…injuries to key players…recruiting drop-off…egos replacing effort…a few years of just bad luck…some other school gets a nucleus of 10 or 20 key players, leading to a cycle of them getting the nation’s best non-scholarship guys… who knows when, but it will happen. History has a way of repeating itself.
Well I don’t think Mt. Union has to worry about that right now and probably for a while.
Does anyone think HSC will take out Wesley and give the ODAC something to talk about? Its a little sad but the ODAC is not as strong as it was 3,4,5,6 + years ago. Those BC teams were as strong as any in the nation and I don’t think this years winner HSC is anywhere close to any of the BC teams.
Bomber,
Mount Union alum, living in New Hampshire
Main- Nice. We almost met back in 94, but we both lost in the National semi-finals. Tough break
Just a couple of small comments….
1) I am a Fisher fan and therefore a supporter of the E8, I don’t think the E8 is as good as good a conference as the OAC and I think those that say otherwise are in the minority so dont take it as disrespectful and “these guys don’t know what they are talking about so just wait and see blah blah” yes we understand what is in store for us with Mount Union coming to town, believe me 99% of us get it…
2) In regards to last years game between Mount Union and Fisher, Kmic was unstoppable and averaging 9 yards per carry makes me weep. But if they could have gotten their passing attack going full blast they would have, you can’t act like Mount Union won’t try and blow you out by hanging 70 on you if they are able to because they have done so in the past many times before including in the playoffs. I was there, they did try and get the passing game going, throwing the deep ball for Garcon on more than a couple occasions and it just wasn’t working out. So therefore they were sticking with what we couldn’t defend and that was the rush. It feels so disrespectful taking our defensive effort that day and reducing it with an argument that Mount Union could have ran up the score if they wanted they just chose to run. That’s crap to me.
And that’s it from me, I’ve said my peace. I hope Ithaca does well this Saturday and it’s great being able to have a reason to communicate with all the Mount Union people again, they were very respectful and made it a great experience.
Mount had some weak opponents. But they did play Capital, Baldwin Wallace and Ohio Northern. And several shutouts weren’t squeakers – they were blowouts.
When the first unit defense doesn’t allow a touchdown all season…. it’s not a weak schedule. It’s a good defense.
But none of us is taking it for granted that Mount will be in Salem. We’re just as tense each Saturday as everyone else is.
’84. Go Raiders!
Tough draw for MHB and Trinity, both of which could and likely would have advanced.
I’m uncertain about the UWW region. Is Case really worthy of a #2 seed? Their opponent’s winning percentage is lower than Wabash’s, and their best opponent finished 7-3, whereas Wabash beat teams like (a tough) Franklin and Wittenberg, which finished at 9-1 and 8-2, respectively.
Granted, 10-0 is better than 9-1, but that edge didn’t help Case get a #1 seed over UWW (which would have been silly, I think we can all agree), or Muhlenberg a #2 over Wesley, or St. Norbert a #2 over Bethel…the list goes on. So, since record obviously isn’t the be-all-end-all, why a #2 for CWRU?
booby,
You are jsut wrong. The last 30 plays were all runs (maybe one incomplete pass to Garcon I am not sure. The other 29 were somehting like 27 Kmic runs and 2 by Micheli.
If you do not have to pass and the other team is not stopping you then why would you ever pass. We listen to legends like Woody around here. If you pass three things can happen and two of them are not good.
We didn’t pass because we didn’t have to.
I would have loved the 2003 and 2004 Bombers to have a shot at Mount. The 2006 version of Fisher is the best the East has probably seen since Rowan’s run in the late 90’s.
I’m just afraid this isn’t the year for the East, and the whole “East stinks”thing is just going to be pounded more after Mount makes its run. By all accounts Mount is better, while Ithaca is still rebuilding from the Felicetti era, and Fisher is not the same without Robby and Lang. Time will tell though! Hope someone can give the purple people a run!
Tecmo,
We may have met at the Brockport game, I was the kid in the wheelchair who only drank soda.
I think the 2004 IC team would have been a better matchup than the current version, although I don’t know if Ithaca is “rebuilding” with this group. Given that they will lose Donovan and Baez from this team, the rebuilding will come next year…
Outside of MUC is there another program with as much of a winning tradition to it than IC? This is going to be a good match up and I’m sure MUC’s players are looking forward to a higher level of competition than the scout team level they’ve gotten from the OAC in ’07.
I also am inclined to believe that the top two seeds in the East Region have the two toughest games in round 1.
Hey pat and kieth – I haven’t listened to the podcasts yet so you may have it mentioned on there, but since you guys run this whole site, can we get some 1st round predictions? Any big upsets waiting in the wings?
If you’re looking for a great game to watch for on Saturday try this one. It’s a classic MID-DRAW match-up (think 8-9 in the NCAA bball tourney) !! It may not have the luster of games with Mount, Ithaca, UWW or Wabash BUT… the Franklin-North Central game looks like a great match-up !! Here are some of the numbers – North Central (37) and Franklin (45) both put up points and both defend (NC-16, FC-20) … and I know a lot of the points against FC came late after the game was decided and starters were out. NC and FC both run the ball well, FC adds a potent passing attack. FC finished with over 5000 total yds for the season. Chad Rupp for the GRIZ threw only 6 picks all year – 3 in one game (and FC still won). A couple of final notes – Wabash beat FC with a school record day from their QB (since hurt) and ONLY by 2 points at C-ville. FC had a chance, missing a 2 point conversion in the last minute. FC played ONLY 4 home games all season, so they are road tested if need be. And finally, FC has the BEST tailgate crowd of ANY school I’ve ever been to.
I’d be interested to read other inside opinions of other match-ups.
SJF Fan, Thanks! I finally I see at least a reference to my team (top two East teams having the toughest round 1 games). All this MUC, IC & SJF talk had me wondering if SJF may be looking past Hobart, one of the hottest teams in the East. Should be a good one. See you there?
You will see me there at about 10 am in the lot on 31F.
No doubt Hobart is one of the hottest teams in the East. After the win at Alfred, I was having dinner with some fellow alum, and said point blank the two teams I would rather not see in round 1 is IC or Hobart.
IC has been killing teams the last several weeks, and if memory serves correct I think Hobart is on a 7 game streak?
There is going to be some hard fought football going on 11/17. Can’t wait.