So Keith McMillan and I were on the record as not being surprised at the eight teams which won in Saturday’s second round.
The margins of victory? Definitely a difference. Does it matter that Bethel/UW-Eau Claire was so close? Which conferences made big leaps forward in Week 12 and 13? Who leaves the second round of the playoffs disappointed and who leaves them with an optimistic outlook?
We’ve got two rematches and two new matchups. Now that we’re down to eight teams, who will benefit the most from the reshuffled bracket? And where will we find ourselves on Saturday?
More in the ATN podcast.
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Ric-
I was trying to make a similar point yesterday. Many bloggers seem to think that interceptions and blocked punts are not part of the game, conveniently forgetting the breaks their team gets.
Good teams make their own breaks, like the MUC blocked punt, and the UWW kick return.
SJF Fan,
Do I think Fisher can win? Yes
Do I think they will win? No
Is that clear enough?
Also, am I really insulting their intelligence by saying you are giving Fisher fans a bad name? You may only be one poster but you make rediculous comments that really stick in peoples’ minds and when they think of you they think of St. John Fisher and when they think about the fans of St. John Fisher I bet you and your dumb comments come to mind first.
MUC93 – good point and is so very much true – the reason why the good teams seem to have the “breaks” is because they were good enough to create them in the first place. I think you and Ric have it figured out.
————-
Boobs I’m placing you in the same category as the napoleon complex Duke guy. You projected some statements, and when called out on them, you couldn’t produce and instead just kept babbling and babbling and babbling. I feel sorry for people like you, never having the guts to go for a win in fear of failure. . .
————————
What is FAN short for again???
Ok Colin Cowherd clearly you are beyond reach. Have fun making statements that will surely come back to bite you.
SJF Fan, we’re gonna miss you after Saturday. Don’t go away mad, just go away….
I’m looking forward to an entertaining game. We’ll see soon enough who can bring what to this game. Ultimately we’ll see just where in the “Purple Pansy Conference” SJF would fit in… My guess is about third or fourth. Good Luck.
MUC VA – don’t worry about missing me this Saturday, I won’t be going away immediately. Regardless of the outcome, I promised a few of your brethren that I would be willing to compare our speculations post game – plus, our two schools will likely be seeing each other (and hearing from each other!) 4 times over the next two seasons.. . which is great BTW.
… on a side note, I want to correct something that may seem like a small detail, but hope you’ll appreciate as to why… you are misquoting an adjective I used in my initial description of OAC as it related to the whole PPC thing – if you have access to a Webster’s dictionary please look up the difference between the words Patsies (the term I actually used) vs. Pansy (the word you cited above claiming that I used) – as you’ll see from the definition, the one I used is not so insulting, the one you misquoted is not exactly PC in today’s day and age, and you probably owe Boobyhasgameyo an apology!
wjbtms,
I believe that MUC is more likely to have a “bad” game, or play a “beatable” game, than the likelihood that the team that beats them can continue to play at that level in the next game or two.
UMHB almost did in 2004, in losing in the last minutes to Linfield. UWW tried very hard to knock off MUC in the Staggs. ONU could not sustain that level of play in 2005. MUC has three losses in the Staggs, a regular season loss and a loss in the semis. Beating MUC in the Regionals has not been done in the last decade.
Boobes by opting to call me a name instead of trying to back up your assertions you’re only further proving my point. You and Duke are cut from the cloth – sad, but I will always hold out hope you’ll find that inner strength some day.
its d 3 who cares
MUC VA,
So I’m assuming you don’t think Fisher is worthy of it’s #5 national ranking if you think they would finish 3rd or 4th in the OAC. I think they would be right in contention for the number 2 spot with Capital, I don’t see Ohio Northern or JCU as on Fisher’s level.
wjbtms Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 5:26 pm //… My problem with the noise on this blog is that almost everyone speaking about the MUC – SJF game are pretty much assuming Fisher is exactly the same team as last year while MUC has gotten so much better. I believe both assumptions are a bit naive…..I believe this is to the tune of “You can’t have your cake and eat it too”.
————————
Thank you wjbtms – I was feeling like I was standing alone.
I always find this blog entertaining. However, The noise on this blog about MUC is just that, noise. My son plays for MUC and tells me repeatedly all he hears when they they play other teams is pure smack. He said SJF players told them all game long last year how much better they were than MUC and that it was luck that they even beat them. He said the clock was winding down and SJF was giving it to them. He laughed and said look at the score.Those boys work hard and get their butts chewed by Kehres if they even attempt talking smack. They have a level of dedication and class that few have. That is why they win.
Ralph,
I really get a kick out of your viewpoint. The only way MUC will lose is when they have a bad day, it JUST COULDN’T BE that the other team was better. Well, in my book any time a team gets beat, the other team was better. Are you looking for an excuse if MUC gets beat, this Saturday or any of the next Saturdays?
I am starting to think MUC fans and the OAC fans has drunk too much of their own cool-aid.
My one and only post of the day (unlike SJF FAN who posted during his “lunch break” at 1:05pm and after the whistle blew signifying the end of his shift at 4:00pm!!). Despite the fact that I wasn’t on the board all day, numerous people still went back and forth with SJF Fan (that’s all he wants fellows, STOP placating him)…..which tells you that it’s a SJF Fan issue, not a “duke” issue and SJF Fan couldn’t help himself by bringing my name up in three separate posts.
You win SJF Fan/d3knowitall……….I promised not to enter the fray but, like all of the others, I can’t help myself. I started by wanting SJF to win, to carry the banner for the East (and I kind of liked their team when they came down to Doylestown and lost to sleepy little Delaware Valley College in the playoffs a couple of years ago)………….now, I find myself wanting Mount Union to win. The final score is inconsequential due to your guarantee of a Fisher victory. I’ll miss you after Saturday afternoon IF Fisher loses (but they won’t because you’ve said so), but I’m sure that we’ll hear from you come July or August, after the Rochester winter thaw, talking about how Fisher will beat Mount in Alliance next September!!
I’m going to tell Dr. Bain that you are in direct violation of The Fisher Creed….tsk…tsk…tsk!!
MUCDad – Touche!!! Same thing happened in Doylestown a couple of years ago in the playoffs……..and this from a Christian college who’s students live by a formal creed!!! I felt like I was in the 700 level of Veterans Stadium at an Eagles game hearing the potty-mouthed Fissures walk off the field…..St. John was turning over in his grave!!
Tell your son to have all of the players read SJF Fan’s posts…….especially the one’s about “patsies” and the OAC.
SJF Fan………KNEEL AT THE FOOT OF ZOD (MOUNT UNION)!!!!!!!
They are well aware of what SJF says. Many of the players read the DIII blogs as I am sure some of the SJF players do as well.
For the record, everyone does not say that. Most of us who’ve seen games in the OAC, or at least outside the Empire 8 — which is a very good Division III conference in its own right — have a healthy respect for the OAC, especially the top half.
As a football conference, we’ve been pretty clear and consistent on where the OAC stands.
Do I really have to look up the conference ranking links again and post them? Maybe I should just give up on writing a column altogether 🙂
I think it’s fair to say MUC would win any D3 conference it is in.
I’ll take it one step further. Been thinking about tossing this one out there for a while.
I think Mount Union might make the playoffs in D2. Maybe not every year, maybe they’d be more like an 8-3 type. I bet there are some leagues in which they could grab the automatic bid.
I saw some of an Abilene Christian game this year, and it was pretty plain to see ACU is biggerfasterstronger than any D3 team I’ve seen. But Mount Union doesn’t really rely on physical dominance (although that of its O-Line could probably be linked to some of the high completion percentages and backs’ success) … They are a sharp, well-coached team that makes few mistakes, and makes great in-game adjustments and adjustments seeing a team a second time.
I don’t see why that wouldn’t carry over into a league where most teams might overpower Mount Union but still not outplay them, if that makes any sense.
I know that doesn’t have a ton to do with SJF-MUC, just thought I’d mention because both the parts quoted above reminded me of that thought.
I appreciate you stepping up to the plate. Your posts are usually good and your point above is duly noted.
Believe it or not, your boy has already been removed from the blog once this postseason. I don’t do board enforcement, but my best guess as to what Pat would say is that as long as its within the terms of service — i.e. not obscene, etc. — we would usually let it go. Some posts never make it past moderation, and some don’t get caught automatically for moderation … but basically, we don’t ban people for being knuckleheads. 🙂
Just for the record, smart guy, Ralph is from Texas and has no dog in this fight. He is, however, one of our most thoughtful and respectful posters. If you want to ignore the unbiased observers and plod along with your Cardinal-colored glasses on, be my guest, but please try to get a clue about who you’re insulting. The observers with no link to either team are few and far between, and given that their opinions tend to be rational and grounded, they are very much welcomed and appreciated.
Back to Wesley-UMHB, was thinking of something.
Wesley’s usually got some pretty nice tailgating going on, but I rarely get to partake. Was thinking of arriving early enough this week to do so … to promote some goodwill between fans of D3 of course.
I propose Wesley fans invite anyone who’s making the trip up from Texas to their tailgate to enjoy a little pre-game. You all probably would anyway, just thought I’d mention where everyone can see. If you travel that far for a D3 game, you should be welcomed with open arms even if you throw down at noon.
Same deal for SJF fans travelling to Ohio, MUC peeps, hook them up. Although in my experience, MUC Game Day is less of a tailgate and more of a cafeteria brunch 🙂
Oh? Do you think your boy SJF Fan broke down some John Carroll/Baldwin-Wallace tape before he called the entire OAC weak 47 times over the past two weeks?
Puh-leeze. 99% of you are blowing smoke when you start talking about a team other than the one you follow/play for every Saturday. You’re lucky the people in the know don’t have the time or interest to call you on all of your false assumptions. You know, stuff like:
Um, no. No it won’t be. Right now, I’d say the Game of the Week would be in Dover, since it’s the closest thing to a toss-up of the four. But you know, what happens is kind of important in determining which game was the Game of the Week.
So what is it that you’re showing for what Mount Union has accomplished to date?
And what is it you’re doing with your ignorance?
Please don’t put my name and ignorance about D3 football in the same post. There isn’t enough time between now and kickoff on Saturday for me to school you.
Good morning wjbtms,
I think that you missed the precision with which I tried to describe games versus MUC. As I look at the mtunionfootball.com web site, I think that the only “bad” game that MUC fans would say the team has had in the last decade has been the 2005 ONU game.
Over the last decade there have been some “beatable” MUC performances, only a few of which have resulted in losses. The game that I mentioned, the 2004 UMHB Semis,
http://www.mtunionfootball.com/2004season/04maryhardinbaylor.htm
was an outstanding performance on a day that MUC was “beatable”. If one looks at the stats, UMHB just played smash-mouth football in the fourth quarter. Look at those drives after the blocked UMHB punt for the MUC TD to go up 35-21. The CRU scored 17 unanswered points in the snow flurries in Alliance in the fourth quarter to win 38-35. The game was relatively mistake free; one INT each, one fumble lost each and only three penalties each.
UMHB did not maintain that same level of execution against Linfield in the Stagg. They gave up lots of passing yardage in the first quarter, shut Elliott down for most of the remainder of the game and then could not execute to get the win in the Stagg.
I see this as the most likely scenario by which SJF wins out. They catch MUC on a “beatable” day, and then sustain that level of play on the road the next week. (When was the last time that SJF flew to a football game?) They either catch UMHB at home or fly again for the Semis. Then, they fly to Salem for the Stagg. Along the way, they do not have another game like they played at Hartwick. By my analysis, MUC has a game like Hartwick about once a decade. SJF, more frequently.
Good luck and travel safely! 🙂
My bad…only the plane flight in the Semis if they catch Central. They will then fly to the Stagg. (UMHB will not go to Pittsford this year).
d3keith, thanks for the mention about the tailgating, i put out an invite to all the umhb fans earlier in the week on their board. we have hooked up with stone station the last 2 weeks and plan to do so again this week. we are planning to be there around 915 so stop by if you can. so if you are from umhb and plan on being in dover, stop by the tailgate area, directly across from the field and join us in pregame banter and post game relaxation.
Boobs, do I think SJF is worthy of #5? Sure – no issue whatsoever. All I am saying is we’ll see where they would rate in the OAC after this weekend. They might be #1!
SJF Fan – I didn’t realize calling someone a “purple pansy” was a PC issue, considering thats what the flower looks like… regardless, my mis-read but the point still stands – Patsy or Pansy.
My apologies for the earlier “its D3 who cares” comment. That would be my son trying to be funny. I have to remember to sign out when I leave the room.
Keith – On the OAC thing. I already mentioned it – but obviously due to the numbers I can see why it would get glossed over or forgotten.
How I formed my opinion came from: reading comments from mainly MUC supporters and a few others on the OAC boards on Post Patterns, coupled with available stats from this site. And from that, I don’t think it is a crime to wonder, at least aloud anyway, if a conference is having an off year (as in 2007 only).
I have no idea about prior seasons – maybe it was by far the strongest in the past I don’t know. And, unfortunately there is no real, factual way to assess, except maybe from the small glimpse we get in the playoffs.
I do not think that diminishes in any way what MUC has accomplished in the past, or may have yet to accomplish in the future.
dukefinadv Says:
November 28th, 2007 at 10:22 pm // . . . due to your guarantee of a Fisher victory.. .
————-
I think you missed your calling – you should work for the Times given your flare. Letting people know who you are in the tank for is not a guarantee.
Do I think Fisher can and will win – yes. Not a guarantee. I know the team that typically wins controls the LOS, and we have a very, very strong O-Line so I very much like our chances in Alliance.
D3Keith ,
Just a side bar, One of my best friends, former teamate is a coach at muc. I finally got a chance just to ask him ” do you think Mount could beat NAIA DII Walsh college? He looked me square in the face and said ” they would kill us!”
Mount players are a humble group of kids. From the time they are freshman they just want to someday play Varsity and “Maybe” win a ring. The coach for TCNJ summed it up, when he said every team in the county should experience playing Mount (not exact quote). What people don’t understand is the enormous amout of pressure the team and coaches have to endure winning all of the time. Think about it, in the eyes of the world a one loss Mount team is an unsuccessful team! Watch the hoopla on this site when Mount finally does lose.
Everybody involved with DIII, fans or players should be very thankful to be able to witness and be part of this journey Coach Kehres and the rest of the staff and players have taken us on. All are welcome along for the ride. Someday this ride will end and Mount will come back to be with the mortals (I hope not in my life time) So let’s enjoy the ride. Good luck to the remaining teams and all of their fans.
Ok, given how emotionally charged everyone seems to get when I pose a question or thought – I’m signing off and won’t be coming back until Sat. evening or Sunday to compare my opinions vs. the reality (as promised) and then that’ll be that.
Hope it is a great game and that everyone stays healthy and injury free.
My prediction is a Fisher win.
Good luck to MUC players.
Travel safely, SJF Fan!
I dont know about that comment about walsh killing mount. That just doesnt sound right, but thats another topic for another day.
SJF Fan-
Look forward to your return this weekend- you have some valid points and a big thanks for putting Duke in his place- that guy is annoying.
Central wins
UWW loses
UMHB wins
Mt wins
Malone or Walsh beating Mount this season..ummm…no.
yellow_jacket…….I’m glad to see that you are alive and well. Since I posted last weekend refuting your lies about “99% of my posts”, you’ve gone underground. Most of us didn’t even notice. I find it ironic that you are a “SJF Fan” type (if you’re not actually SJF Fan yourself!!!). His self-imposed (while at the urging of most of the board) exile until Saturday night or Sunday is due to what he incites on this board……..and you support his position and style. As to his “putting me in my place”……….your believing that shows just how much further out of your league you are than SJF Fan is………..at least he is intellectually stimulating (did I just compliment SJF Fan?!). Go buzz off, fly away, and thank you for kneeling at the foot of Zod (predicting a Mount victory)…….and have a wonderful holiday season!!
Mount Union, they are laughing at you up in Rochester (if you can hear them through the howling winds and arctic like temps:)……..DO THE JOB……..Bellichick style (far too much class for that though!!).
D3Keith:
Ok, school me on St John Fisher, tell me their strengths, weaknesses and how they match up against Mount Union. Now make sure you don’t use references to teams of the past. I have been talking about this year. I have not used terms like weak in my references to the other teams and specifically Mount Union. Nor have I attempted to analyze Mount Union’s team on this site.
Now please point out to me which comments showed any darn knowledge about St John Fisher beyond the score, yards gained and by who.
Keith, Mount Union has earned a great reputation, but reputation does not win games. Ithaca played the type of game against Mount Union I would expect. They were not competitive when they played Fisher. I have been at just about every game Fisher played and I know Fisher. I am very knowledgeable about the game of football as well. Fisher wins games for many reasons, but they win for one specific reason, they play 100% as a team all of the time. I am sure Mount Union does the same. Thus, this should be a great game.
Last year, Fisher was suppose to be blown out, it did not happen. There are several areas where Fisher is vastly improved over last year. They will be very serious competition and can win this game. But, you won’t be a believer until it really happens. It is too bad most of the folks here, who really don’t know a darn thing about Fisher, have shown that lack knowledge in their comments.
So please show me you really know something about St John Fisher.
Ralph Turner
Got your point. What the Mount has done is fantastic over the years. What the Yankees have done over the years has been great. We cannot point to the history Mount has built up, no question. At the same time our recent historical record deserves lots of respect. Not too many here have any knowledge of Fisher and how good they are. That is too bad.
In NY at the high school level when a team at one level starts creating a record like the Mount Union record, they typically move to a higher level of competition. If the Mount really has no one which can compete at this level why are they hanging around. Do they like beating teams up (72 points in one quarter). I have wondered about that question. They have proven by record they are not like the teams in the OAC (they shut out 7 teams this year along). Thus they are definitely in a class of their own.
I believe Fisher also has moved to a new level of play. Is that play at Mount Union’s level, we will find out on Saturday. But until that game is over there should be a level of respect from both sides. That really has not happened here.
Lastly, I appreciate your detailed response and honest thoughts, much better than most.
this will be mount’s toughest game of the year, no question. and yes, the raiders can lose. anyone can be beaten on a given day when you’re at this level of the playoffs.
still, i would be shocked to see SJF win, and that’s no slam on SJF. this is the best mount team in the school’s history. it has everything – amazing defense, ridiculously productive and balanced offense.
mount 34, SJF 17.
I’ve watched for a week now and can’t sit quietly anymore. Certain SJFC fans please give it a rest. All of this bantering back and forth and the crying out for respect does little more than agitate people, bringing cause for disrespect and disdain. Respect is earned not given and it certainly can’t be earned by slinging subjective thoughts and opinions around a message board.
It is quite obvious here that much of what is said by some SJFC posters does more harm than good. It appears to have created a negative opinion of the program and it’s players based on some comments from MucDad and Duke. I’m certain that negative image is not what the coaches, players, and administration (Folks like Dr. Bain…duke) have been working for the last 20 years.
I’m asking fellow SJFC posters to please take a minute before you type and ask yourself, is what I’m about to type going to help or harm the image of the program? If you think it may do harm, then back away from the keyboard….
K-Mack
Are you going to have time to visit the tailgate before the game? The post game tailgate is also a good thing.
From what I’ve read and heard these teams have a lot of respect for each other and both teams want another shot at UWW. Not that UWW has anything sewn up.
Duke-
You are weird. Obviously mommy and daddy didn’t pay enough attention to you in your younger years. This is what I wrote about you last week and you’ve lived up to it in this thread:
“I’ve been reading your rambling posts on here for years- 99% of your posts are about how smart you are and how much money you make- and of course about how great the eagles are (well maybe not this year..)”
By the way- I’d love for Mt to lose- I just don’t see it happening this week.
Thanks for the kind words, wjbtms.
Your comment about SJF taking it to the next level is well worth considering. Some of us South Region fans think that Wesley has moved in on the NJAC recruiting base, and this explains the decline of Rowan.
If SJF is filling the East Region vacuum, then I will accept your premise, and anticipate the next few years of Cardinal success. The provincial nature of D3 competition makes it hard to compare regions. That is why it is so important for D3 programs to support the “globetrotting” that Pat and Keith (and anyone else who can get away) do in the course of a season.
I have to trust their assessment of the E8 being a quality conference (altho’ the webcast of the Cortaca Jug game from Ithaca College Television, ICTV, was nice)! A strong E8 helps push SJF to that next level.
I will take your SJF comments to heart as I watch/listen to the MUC-SJF game.
Good luck and best wishes to all.
yellow_jacket98 – and this was my response last weekend to your comment……
“if that’s your graduating class (‘98) then I have my answer……you’re still a kid!! Don’t let the facts get in the way. I took a look at my posts this year and they were (1) directed at Gordon Mann about the MAC conference (2) asking those in the know if Mount Union…..in an App State kind of way…..could beat a solid D2 program on their best day (3) Eagles commentary (and by the way, unless you’re from New England, it really doesn’t amtter this year does it?!) directed at Keith McMillan because he grew up in the Philly area and remains a fan (4) Garcon’s/Kmic’s chances at the next level (5) keeping D3 football in perspective and remembering our veterans and those in the military in our thoughts and prayers on Veterans Day…….and I had numerous people seconding my thoughts (not you though…….are you afraid because if we go to a draft, you’re young enough to get drafted?:).
There were no posts attributed to me about my intelligence or my money…..you’ve got the wrong guy. And as I stated above, when that’s come up in the past, it’s been strictly defensive (“East bashing”) and never offensive.
Enough out of you……but I do wish you a happy holiday season nonetheless!!”
You never attempted to refute any of it because you were wrong. While we are allowed to have fun and debate on this board (within reason), please come armed with some facts when you throw out a comment like that…………and I haven’t heard the word “weird” in many, many years. How young are you?!
sjfc1993 very weel said! Hopefully SJF will have a great day tomorrow!
sjfc1993 very well said! Hopefully SJF will have a great day tomorrow!
Duke-
Call it what you want- weird is the perfect word to describe you.
I also bet you were likely hung from the flagpole by the offensive linemen in high school.
Never got invited to the cool parties, maybe was cut from the freshman squad and so on…
bumble bee – I played offensive line and linebacker in high school and offensive line in college……….and you should see the parties I throw now. If you’re not busy, come on down to Aruba over New Year’s and I’ll show you what a cool party is. We might even have a “Tiger” show up if you know what I mean (you probably don’t!!). We’ll also have a bunch of cougars………and they like boys so you’d feel right at home.
Still no ability to refute my statements from your original misnomer (sorry to pontificate bee boy). Be very careful buzzie……..you might just get stung. Now shoo………….hide before the draft guys (not the NFL types) come for you!!
Duke-
You keep taking the bait and keep proving how weird you are. This talk about boys and how young I am is starting to scare me.
Please duke – humor all of us and tell us who you played for in college?
Charlie Tuna – My eight year old son uses the word weird………..men do not!!! You will not even attempt to refute my points about my posts to your original lie…….tsk, tsk, tsk!!
Tiger is a friend of a friend of a friend (yes, that Tiger) and a cougar is a hot, middle -aged woman who likes younger men. Come and get it before the government drags you to Iraq!!
I played at Swarthmore, we stunk, I was pretty good at best. Had a few D2 opportunities but at so-so academic institutions in PA. Before he died, my Dad told me to go for the best education I could get. Swarthmore…..lot’s of smart kids (average SAT – 1467…….# 2 in the country) and rich kids (I was not…..I came from nothing and worked for it…….and I am now……..and share a great deal of it). Masters in Econ and an Ivy League MBA and got by barely but got by nonetheless. Made great contacts and the rest is history.
Wife has her MBA and PHd and teaches part time at a local university……..but is not a snob……and she loves sports, especially football!! She’s got a brother who’s pretty big time in television broadcasting…..that has some sports perks!!
Would never have gotten into any of this with you yellow_jacket had it not been for wanting to clear the record about your original post about me…..which I refuted and you’ve still yet to acknowledge.
And by the way, I don’t know what type of a high school you went to but at our school, nobody ever attempted to hang anybody from the flagpole. The offensive lineman in our school kept that “stuff” from happening…….we were not the “cause” of it happening. We were the school’s disciplinarians. That’s how you treat (Catholic school) your fellow human beings. We once stomped our starting QB for big-timing one of the geek-types in school. That’s the proper way to act.
Where did you play in college? Position(s)? I don’t mean this as a tit-for tat, just interested where you’re coming from?