Go grab your coffee and sit down with us on a Monday morning for this week’s ATN podcast. Four games last week, two games this week. Plus, hear what Keith thought of the Wesley/Mary Hardin-Baylor game and Pat’s take on the Central/Bethel game. What’s coming up this week? Are we really destined for a threepeat Stagg Bowl?
Listen in.
[display_podcast]
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
R24aider Says:
December 5th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
D3Keith,
I was also wondering, how is the team picked for the Aztec bowl? I don’t remember ever seeing any kids from Mount. Is that because Mount usually goes so deep in the playoffs?
I too would like to know the answer to that.I do remember one time someone said it was beacause LK doesnt like to single any one player out.Minus the Galardie trophy..
purpleshyco, I think you answered your own question…Mount is always playing on the same day the Aztec Bowl is played.
Weather a factor? The only people that will have an issue this Sat. with the weather will be the officials and the special teams players. I lived near UMHB campus and I saw players out playing during Jan, Feb, Mar when the temp’s are well in the sub 30’s. We all as kids have played tackle football in snow, rain, sleet, etc…why can’t college players do the same.
Let’s drop the weather clause and just realize that the team that executes the best on Saturday is going to win. Weather is going to impact both teams regardless of where they live..
Both programs have come a long way in 5-6 years – trying to follow the same model that MUC has had so much success with: Defense, Discipline, Desire..
Cru crushed,
UWW football games are broadcast live on a local channel with the cooperation of Charter Network on campus and in Whitewater. UWWTV is part of the communications department, I believe, with students doing the commentary. I suggest doing a search on the UWW web site to find out how to contact them. You can purchase a copy of the game though them.
While I certainly respect Keith and Crushed I maintain that trash talk should be delt with to the point that all players, coaches and fans clearly understand that. trash talk is not part of the “male machismo”. I played the game for 8 years man and boy. I left college to serve in the Army as a paratrooper. I was awarded 3 Purple Hearts and 4 Bronze Stars. I believe that trash talk is for muscle bound thugs not real men. If we excuse unsportsman like conduct in any way we encourage the diluting of the manhood that should be not only demonstrated but taught in the game of football. What part of bragging, vulgarity or taunting an opponent is manly? I know the old standard excuse , “everybody does it” applies here. I guess if everybody does it and no one can control it, we should just shutup and accept it. Not my style. I have covered high school and college games for better than a decade since our military retirement. I have a lot of respect for a lot of good officials but as a rule if they attempt to control this shameful part of an athetic contest their standards are on par with a drunk rock star.
By the way Dallas you bring up an interesting point when you predict that one of the major factors in the game will be the quarterback play. Whiel there is no question that the UWW guy is an outstanding talent and has earned his exceptional acclaim a couple of notes about Josh Welch are in order. All to often we say, “he’s a great quarterback” and we mean “he’s a great passer”. There is no question that Josh is a fine passer. If he did a bit more passing he would be a better passer, but only fools can question Pete Fredenburg’s choice to as Coach Royal used to say, “Dance with the one that brung him.” Pete will stay with the run and he should with the running game he has. However, being a great quarterback is a lot more than being a great passer. When you total up his ball handling ability, his field since, his leadership, his passing and his running ability I’ll stack Josh Welch up angainst any quarterback in the country and Josh will do well. Who is the only quarterback to defeat 4 nationally ranked teams in a row as a freshman? Who was the teenager who tossed the touchdown pass that handed Mount Union there first home loss in 5 years and denied the mighty Purple Raiders a trip to the Stagg Bowl? As for passing, who holds the record for season, game and career touchdown passes at UMHB? If he plays on a running team he will not pass enough to build the one stat that the world judges a quarterback by, but it doesn’t make him less than a great quarterback. I wouldn’t trade our quarterback for any guy in the nation. And yea I am a homer. The only difference in me and other homers is I admit it.
God Bless All
Lets have a great game and pray all the kids come out uninjured.
cark spackler,
good post. The only thing that would make me nervous if I was a Bethel fan, is if the coach is bound and determined to run the ball down Mount’s throat. That absolutely won’t happen. Bethel will need to think out of the box to have any chance this weekend. Nothing too outrageous, little dink and dunk passes to loosen up DiRiggi and Crew. I’m sure your coaches are putting in extra hours in the film room and will come up with a solid game plan. Good luck to Bethel and I hope everybody has a safe trip. I can’t wait to see the Royals play.
Cru:
We are ALL homers of some sort. Keith, Pat, Gordon, and the guys have to maintain a certain “independence” but we all have a home team to root for.
A true quarteback is a field general. Whether passing, play calling, motivating, or any of the other many duties, the eyes and ears are on that guy every offensive play on the field. I was not aware that he was the quarterback back in ’04 but he did a superlative job in Alliance and is worthy of praise, especially at the age he accomplished the feat. Is he the best? I suppose ther are as many opinions as people but he ranks up there.
Micheli is another one of those quarterbacks that would deserve mention in that vein. He is a triple threat with his arm, legs, and vision. Rarely does he stare down a receiver, is quick on his reads, has great pocket presence, can scramble, run, and provides a strong leadership presence in the huddle and on the field.
He was initially seen as a running alternative to Mike Jorris but has shown a great knack for throwing the short “touch” pass as well as the longer downfield throws. Being on such a talent-laden team might lead to overlooking his abilities a bit but he is the real deal.
Cruguy,
1) All I was trying to do was give an observation from someone who played football in the North in the winter elements. It absolutely can make a difference in a game….from a turnover standpoint to a psychological standpoint. I don’t know that it will play a big part in this weekend’s outcome, but it can make a difference for those that do not have the opportunity to play in it on a regular basis. Again, I will repeat myself, I do not think it will be a huge factor this weekend.
2) I pointed out the Panhandle vs Belton weather for the sake of those who might not know. Believe me, there are guys from WI who just assume it is sunny and 80 degrees 24/7 in TX. Crazy thought to you and I, but some people actually believe that.
3) I am a Texan. I played college and high school football in WI, but I have spent the majority of my life in Texas. As soon as I graduated college, I got back here as soon as I could. I hated the weather, and yes, it did effect the way I played. The guys who I played with up there were nuts when it was cold and snowy. They were like animals….especially the linemen. They loved it, and yes, it was a tremendous psychological advantage to those who didn’t.
4) I never brought up quarterback play. It must have been someone else on the DD.
5) Thank you for serving our country. I was the first in my family to attend college instead of the military, and I cannot thank those enough who serve.
UWW making it on the front page of today’s WSJ Personal Journal section (page D1).
Dallas, thank you for your response. My bad regarding giving the “quarterback play” comments to you that was Cru Crushed saying that Jones was “by far the better quarterback.” Certainly, there are a lot of fine young men that have the credentials to argue their case for being the best in the Country. Jones is absolutely one of them. However, I question anyone saying that any quarterback is a “BY FAR” better quarterback than a guy who has been a 4 year starter, lived in the playoffs, and has Josh Welch’s record against nationally ranked teams to include Mount Union. I believe Josh is the best overall quarterback playing the position in D III ball. I absolutely respect the valid cases that can be made for other outstanding athletes, many of whom have had three or four times the opportunity to build passing stats. I don’t believe any of the four quarterbacks left in the nation are “BY FAR” better than any of the other three. Nobody is in the simi-finals by accident. Melba Welch’s grand son will stand beside any of them.
Raiderdude, You will find me in the Amen corner when you preach Mr. Micheli’s praises. He’ll do to run the river with as we say here in Texas.
As the discussion over weather has been furthered, one factor has been overlooked – the play of the offensive line.
I think it is safe to say that all four teams are where they are today thanks in large part to the offensive line play. Whether opening holes for the running game or providing adequate time for the quarterback to execute the passing game. It is especially important in sloppy conditions because footing is at a premium so the blocking assignments and execution have to be crisp and coordinated to allow the running back to hit the hole without hesitation.
I was going to make this post before lunch but ran out of time, only to find an article about Derek Blanchard when i returned. While Clyde was writing about Derek, the same could be said for Reash or Safran of Mount or any of the talented offensive linemen of the other three remaining teams.
While attention is usually drawn to the “skilled” position players, let’s not forget the big guys up front that make it all happen.
Carl:
That was a great post. I actually picked Bethel to be in the position they are today. I’ll admit I don’t know the team as well as others but, you don’t beat the Johnnies without alot of talent.
The respect you showed for Mount is reciprocated by Mount supporters as well. At this level, nothing less than a competitive game is expected
btw: great name. Loved caddyshack! Let me know when you become the head greenskeeper with all those “chinch bugs” and “manganese”.
Good luck all!
UMHB has a one dimensional offense and has not chance to advance…bethel has a better chance against MUC than UMHB has against UWW…(the scores will reflect this)
The assumption that UMHB is “one dimensoional offense” is a logical assumption, but like a lot of lgical assumptions is incorrect. I have missed three UMHB games in the past three years. This includes trips to Oregon, Virginia, Ohio, Wisconsin, Delaware and even Alpine, Texas. I loved the 2004 team that took the Cru to the Stagg bowl. However, I have little doubt that this is a better team than the Cru feilded in 04. UMHB’s offensive line from tackle to tackle is a better Big Purple Wall than the 2004 line that boasted two of the best grunts to ever strap on a helmet in Jeff Oliver and Matt Bush. The fact that UMHB has the best O-line coach in Division III football and Coach George proves it every year on the field keeps these guys from truly being one demensional. The unsung heroes of UMHB make it possible to run or throw. Cru Boss Pete Fredenburg runs because he can, not because he has to. Thinking UMHB can’t pass because they don’t will get you in big trouble. Josh Welch is a fine passer who has thrown 7 ints this year in 13 games. Three of those ints came in one game and that was of course against the Warhawks. The other 4 ints were spread over a dozen other games. Was the desaster against the Warhawks due to the qaulity of the UWW defense vs others he has faced this year. I’m sure the Warhawk coaches will not say that. So why did an excellent passer known as the Cove Cannon while in highschool misfire in Whitewater? Because he did. That’s why. We all tend to over analize a bad game by a great athlete or a great team. I recall watching a PGA Opens Champ shoot an 8 over par and missing the cut badly on during a tournament qualification round that year. News flash, we all have those days. No explanation for it. It’s just fact. Bet on the fine coaching staff at UWW not counting on Mr. Welch having another worst day of his carreer. Can he pass? You might want to ask the good people at Mount Union. No question they still remember Josh. If your game plan is to attempt to force the Crusaders to pass, I submit that it’s not a bad plan. However, you may need to be careful what you wish for. I have litttle doubt that the defensive coaches at UWW have a great deal of rspect for the left handed Texas gunslinger.
UMHB doesn’t stand a chance… one miscue will start the avalanche. I don’t foresee them playing a perfect game, thus UWW will be in Salem for winter break
mille125&bigwheels77,
Sounds like someone should call the coach for UMHB and tell them there is no sense in showing up. I know one thing, it’s not very easy to beat a team twice in the same year. Especially a quality team like UHMB. If UMHB can hold on to the football, the game should be a thriller. Also, everybody seems to think weather is going to be a factor, the better running team usually benefits. This game may go to OT. It’s going to be a great one.
R24aider
you speak truth… You reminded me why I wasn’t too upset when the Colts blew that game against the pats a month ago. back to the point though… when a team is out matched, they have the ability to still win the game, but it is rebounding from mistakes that determines their ultimate destiny. In my opinion, outmatched teams tend to press after mistakes and make a bad… worse. Enough of the UMHB side, we still haven’t addressed the steam roller that UWW is… (until MUC, it is pathetic that I have to write that without being lynched by 30 raider fans) As a wise man much smarter than me put it…. If you’re not part of the steamroller, you’re part of the pavement. Somehow UMHB has resurrected from the week 4 pavement and they are up for another shot. I don’t realistically see it happening though… Hip Hip Hooray for another week of disappointment from the D3 staff, “We thought the games would be more competitive.” I just don’t see it in the cards. UWW 35 UMHB 10
Wow! Man that bigweels77 is one sharp guy. Here we were all thinking they were going to have another game this Saturday in Whitewater. Man I’m glad he set us all straight. According to bigwheels they are just going to play the tape of the last contest when UMHB had their worst game of the year. Man that saves us all a lot of trouble. I was planning on taking the time to actually watch the new game. What a waiste of time that would have been hugh BW?
What were we saying about trash talking fans? Too funny.
R24aider,
The thought of “not beating a team twice in one year” is nothing but cliche. Look at mt union and capital last year….if mt union played st john’s fisher 10 times this year i think that most of us would agree that mt union would win 9 if not all 10 of those games (i am not picking on SJF just trying to make a point).
in the UWW/UMHB game, UWW is clearly the better team and will prevail 9 out of 10 times..saturday will be one of those 9..this is a total mismatch……the reason that umhb came out passing in the regular season is because their coaching staff knew that they were outmatched at multiple positions…lets face it..the only way that UWW loses is if they beat themselves……
mille125,
So, your position is that if the “impossible” occurs, (UMHB wins)….that it would only be because UWW beat themselves? Wow…..maybe UMHB better stay home….
Welch displayed a horrible throwing arm when he came to Wisconsin last time. I mean he was either way off line or underthrowing the ball by a ton. It is too bad for you guys that Oliver is out he is like a foot taller than Schultz, so he presented some matchup problems when Gabe was covering him. Add the weather too the mix and I can’t imagine that it would make Welch more accurate. No doubt that MHB has a great ground game, but the Warhawks strength is shutting down the running attack. That being said I don’t think that the Warhawks will win again by 34 points and I’m crossing my fingers that Schebler is back this week, because it could come down to a FG. But I think the Warhawks will end up in Salem against Mount Union again this year, creating in my opinion an interesting matchup.
Bias D3,
You are absolutely correct regarding the passing of Josh Welch in the last UWW game. There was no question that Josh was off line and tossing short. Given the single game you watched I’m sure logic tells you that UMHB has only a ground game. I respectfully submit that if you had seen Welch pass for the last 8 seasons (High School and College) you would have a totally different opinion of the left handed signal caller. The first guy to tell you there was no excuse for his passing performance in the Warhawk game will be Josh. However, it should be noted that your observation that he was throwing off line and short is very valid and frankly the ints had little to do with a great Warhawk defense. He was just off that day. It happens to the best of them. I have watched this young man play the game as a 4 year high school and college starter. Understandably, the UMHB offense is run oriented with the line and the backs they have. However, Josh Welch is an exceptional passing quarterback. I understand why this is hard to believe based on the single game you are talking about. It was without question or competition the worst passing performance of his career. However, the young man holds the UMHB records for touchdown passes, passing yardage, and number of completions for a game, a season and a career. Of course to be fair those are passing records on a running offence, but are still noteworthy. During this year he threw 4 interceptions in the other 12 games. One was clearly a bad pass. One was when his arm was hit as he threw. Two bounced off his recievers. No doubt that the 3 ints in the Warhawk game belonged to Josh, but the other dozen games this year saw the guy throw one bad ball. Barring the Warhawk game when the Cru has gone to the passing game it has been a good one. They just seldom have to go there. Don’t be shocked to see some excellent strikes from Welch.
Ok we all hear about the Gagliardi award but who has heard of the Melberger award? I haven’t.
RunFerrum,
Mel’s Bergers is a little place on Main Street here in Copperas Cove, Texas. I’m shocked that you haven’t heard of it.
I keep hearing how UMHB and Welch, “just had a bad day in Oct.” Funny, that has been happening to a lot of UWW’s opponents, especially at the Perk. No credit given to the Hawks defense who have had 23 interceptions in the last 6 games, 32 for the season! They shut down the run and can’t wait for the other team to start passing!
Mount Union vs UWW III? I think it would be some great drama…I mean, UWW would sure come into the game hungry for a win….and the 2007 version of the Purple Raiders has shown week in and week out they are solid….I know its probably a yawn for DIII fans in general to have another muc/uww Stagg…but if it did happen, that would be a real accomplishment I think for both schools to return to the top game three years straight…UMHB seems very good, and I picked them over Wesley – but on the Warhawks home field…I think UWW pulls it out…here’s hoping the Raiders bring it against Bethel like they brought it against SJF…GO RAIDERS
Is there going to be another video feed like last year of the games?
wiac watcher,
There is no question you are correct regarding the quality of the derservingly high touted UWW defense. It is possible that these guys could shut down the running attack and make great plays to intercept Welch. However, no one knows because no discredit to the Warhawk defense they simply didn’t have to make great plays. If you look at the stats through the past four years you will see that while he ain’t Joe Montanna he has proven himself to be a quality passing quarterback. It is of course your prerogative to believe a good passer can have a bad day or not. However, its a fact. The fact that Josh had a bad day and the ints were his fault is something no Crusader (especially Josh) will deny. Again you are correct when you say the Warhawks have a great defense and they create turnovers. They may do that this Saturday, but the last time the Cru went to Wisconsin they didn’t have to.
Here is the link to both games being on line streamed by the NCAA. Enjoy watching in the comfort of your home. As for me. Anti freeze (Jagermeister) at the Perk.
http://all-access.cstv.com/cstv/player/player.html?code=ncaa&sport=m-footbl&category=live&media=54305
Just a few facts….if facts mean anything to you. Of the 24 categories tracked by the NCAA…UMHB is ranked higher than UWW in 15 of them. Included in those 15 are; total offense, rushing offense, rushing defense, scoring offense, TURNOVER MARGIN, kickoff returns, tackles for loss, pass sacks, TEAM PASSING efficiency, turnovers gained and a big one….fumbles recovered. UWW leads in TURNOVERS LOST…UWW has had 24 this year and UMHB has had 25…Despite all the talk about UMHB not being able to hold onto the ball and having a “bad” passing game…the two teams are pretty much equal in that category. As I previously stated, I think UWW has a super team…they wouldn’t be in the final four if they didn’t. The same goes for UMHB….don’t be surprised if they “SHOCK” a lot of you this weekend.
wiac watcher,
yeah, UWW is the #1 team in the nation for Passes intercepted with 32, UMHB is # 2 with 29. UMHB leads the nation with 25 fumbles recovered and UWW is #11 with 16 recovered.
Yep – UWW’s defense shuts down the run and can’t wait for the other team to start passing…all except for Kmic, Micheli, Wray and Garcon…I know you’re talking about this year, but I couldnt help myself….
Come on Old Sarge, are you even looking at the teams the two have played. Tell me that those stats wouldn’t be different if UMHB played in the WIAC or the other way around. You know that those stats are smoke and mirrors.
Catching up on all the talk throughout the day has made me change my mind about the outcome of the UWW/MHB game. Comparing stats from the season and knowing MHB plays a much stronger schedule, having one of the best quarterbacks in Texas high school and college who has broken every record in the book, UWW completely catching MHB on a bad day earlier this year, UWW not causing any turnovers but actually just receiving gifts during the last matchup, MHB having a better coaching staff, etc.
MHB 70 UWW 3
warhawktrumpet,
Not sure why you think UWW plays a tougher schedule….I have looked at the teams the two have played and using the final rankings on the web-page,.. UWW played one ranked (top 25) team, other than UNHB during the regular season. Other than UWW, UMHB didn’t play a team that was ranked in the top 25 (final rankings)….thought they did play Harden Simmons who was ranked in the top Ten at the time they played. Not enought data for me to say who plays the toughest schedule………
If I gave all you idiots out there that think I am a UWW fan $5 do you think you could buy a clue with it? I have never been there, I have only been to wisconsin once, and I only know one person that has ever attended UWW. Look around… UWW is better than you, except for MUC. Can’t everyone accept that this is a two team tournament? Anyone with a clue, or $5 to buy one… knew this coming into the post season… We play these games with a predetermined outcome, the means to this end is left to the players… that is about it.
Grow up and get off the message board, let the UWW and MUC talk begin
oldsarge
keep dreaming…umhb stands no chance..they are playing right into UWW’s strength (primary running team)…….there will be no “shocks” this week….umhb has scored 17 points in 8 quarters against this defense…..14 of those points were meaningless as the game had already been decided….expect more of the same….
Play nice bigwheels…your mother would be disappointed in you!
does anyone else feel like they are in some kind of relationship with Cruguy? I mean all the talking he does just leaves me sitting nodding my head wishing he would stop talking and go to bed so I can go out with my buddies.
Anyone else feel that way?
this is fun to read. welch as a good passer, wow, i missed something this past week in dover. 5 of 10. only 2 throws of any yardage. lets not kid our selves, jones is better because he can be. umhb runs the ball period. they do not rely on the pass, if they have to they will lose the game. uww can do both, the weather, another thing i find interesting in the discussion, will be a factor. how does either team handle it will determine the outcome as much as anything. since uww is at home, they can move the ball either way, they win. umhb will have to play a perfect game to win. last week they put the ball on the ground but recovered it, they can not do it this week. i am looking forward to the game, will be watching it on the internet but wish i was watching my team instead, live and freezzzzzing. both teams are good, uww is better, 28 – 10. umhb, good luck and enjoy uww in december, we did the last 2 years and the results werent good.
bigwheels
That’s exactly how my wife feels.
Bigwheels….last time I checked the most recent Stagg Bowl results – it was a 1 team tournment.
Dallas, that’s pretty funny – 70 to 3.
This debate will be all over in less than 48 hours. All 4 semi-final teams are good teams. Let’s enjoy the fact that the D3 champion will be determined on the field and not based on some coaches and a computer.
Projections – UWW 14, UMHB 10 [Sorry, but Welch will choke]. MUC 28 Bethel 0
BaylorFan,
Add 2 more TD’s to the UWW score and I think you are right on the money.
As much as I’d considered doing that with my score Prediction, I think this latest storm hitting the area will make the field at the Perk a mess to play in. Nothing like the Pittsburgh vs Miami game on Monday night, but pretty close.
For the past season I have read all the comments and never posted any comments but today I felt this overwhelming feeling to just say a few things. First I guess football is just for the guys and all the macho comments, I thought this site was created for football talk not team bashing. Second, I love and support my son and his team, does not matter, win or lose. The games will be decided on many factors and EVERY TEAM MAKES MISTAKES, I don’t know any team that is perfect or any person for that matter. Third, my biggest thoughts are with all the teams this weekend, I pray to God that they all make it to the games safely, play to the best of their abilities with all that is in their hearts and minds, stay healthy through the games and return to their moms in one piece! My son has played since he was 6 and we have had our share of serious injuries and I have been there for him all the way. I regret that I can’t come to UWW this weekend, because that trip would definitely eat up part of next semester’s tuition money, but I will be there in spirit and watching on the internet. Love and prayers to all the players, coaches and fans!
Old Sarge,
Although I am a West region follower, I don’t have a real dog in this fight … but when you say: “Just a few facts….if facts mean anything to you Of the 24 categories tracked by the NCAA…UMHB is ranked higher than UWW in 15 of them.”
That’s not nearly as telling in d3 because there’s so little inter-league and inter-regional play. It’s more about conference strength and UMHB’s league doesn’t compare to the WIAC.
http://www.d3football.com/atn.php?id=8
And then there’s that that pesky head-to-head result …
Nonetheless, UMHB will play UWW closer than Wesley has the past two seasons, shoe problem or not.
Old Sarge-
UWW played a #2 and #6 team in UMHB and LaCrosse this year (yes they were 6 when we went there and beat them) and an Eau Claire team that actually won a game in the playoffs. Not only that but I can bet that most people on this forum (other that CRU fans) would say the WIAC is a much tougher conference to play in. Not enough data means you aren’t paying attention!
Repete: That’s a 2002 ranking you cite there. Let’s try 2007:
http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-nation/2007-09-26/How+we+ranked+the+conferences
The ASC compares very well.
My mistake on the link.
As for “very well,” it’s hard to say. Not a very impressive NC effort by the ASC. Both UMHB and H-S lost by large margins to WIAC teams. H-S lost at home and its close loss to Linfield wasn’t as impressive as it might have seemed at the time. I think if you take the top team out of each league the WIAC, the gap would grow. Plus UWW actually had some competitive conference games — so the gap between the Whawks and the rest of the WIAC appears smaller than UMHB and its league foes.