That’s where Keith McMillan and I are this weekend — we’re here and you’re there … somewhere. Good week to be playing — if you’re in the tournament, you still have a chance.
Cold and a tad windy here for the Muhlenberg/Salisbury game. Great day for running the football and defense, which is what these teams are already known for.
We’ve previewed this weekend to death, so we’ll just throw it open for you guys. I’d have said y’all, but we’re north of the Mason-Dixon.
Think of it this way — they didn’t have to eliminate other west teams in the first round unlike previous years. 🙂
Although top seed didn’t do W&J a lot of good … 😉
As for eliminating other West teams … perhaps that was Bethel’s problem.
I hate to guess what Mount’s final totals would have been if the officiating wasn’t so rotten. I’ve watched high school games at Massillion Tiger stadium and the so called gang that we were violated by would all have a life time job in Massillon other then maybe the clock manipulation.
I’m sorry that Ithaca College had to have this black mark on their fantastic performance. Whatever conference this group came from should be brought up on charges for attempting to take the game out of the player’s hands.
Someone who knows, please educate me on Curry. They are obviously very talented having made the playoffs many years in a row, they are unranked though. I don’t really know what to make of their win over Hartwick. To me Hartwick wasn’t that good of a football team regardless of their record and the fact that Fisher lost to them in the regular season. I’m interested in others thoughts on Curry. Thanks.
’93 – I think a lot of people in Cardinal land are wondering the same thing you are.
SJF fan,
There is another way to look at it. Ithaca scored 4 more points vs. Mount than Otterbein did. Otterbein was one of those .500 teams from the Purple Pansy Conference you referred to. Ithaca played an inspired game, but they still got beat by 24 points. And the almighty E-8 went 1-2. So, if the OAC is that pathetic, and one of your best teams just got beat by 24, where does that leave the E-8?
Mike Craig (Hobart coach) went to the well one too many times with the fake punt on their own 5. I have seen him do it before out of the end zone, but I think SJF was aware of his propensity to gamble and were not caught off guard. Cost us 7 pts, for sure. But no excuses, SJF won the trench battle, especially in the second half and was clearly the better team. Good luck to Fisher the rest of the way! And, congratulations to IC for giving MUC a battle.
SJF fan,
Why are you so excited about Ithaca scoring 18 points? You talked all week about how OAC teams automatically look at the Mount game as a loss and that they don’t put up much of a fight. Well, Congratulations!!! A mighty E-8 team put some points on the board and still got smoked. Doesn’t sound like there was any fight there either. Just another flea that got in the big dogs way.
One thing you have too know is when you play the same conference teams year after year you pretty much know everything they do. When you play a team that you haven’t seen before, adjustments come during the game. I would say Mount adjusted nicely to the game plan. There isn’t a better coach in D3 or maybe in the country than Kehres. Remember Mount has played SJF before so be prepared for a bigger whoopin this time.
TDD, are you kidding me? They didnt even put up a fight?
It was 24 pt game, not a 50pt game like they are used to seeing. IC had opportunities to make the game even closer.
In the first 3 QTR’s IC had:
Uncharacteristic drops on 3rd down by their sure handed TE and #1 WR…
4th and 1 on MUC’s 27 they rush for -7 by their QB…
1st and goal on MUC’s 3 yd line they get picked off…
And on 2 of their 2pt plays they catch the ball short of the goal line but cant get in, 2 fricking yards and they dont run the pattern to the goal line?
IC needed to play flawless but didnt and still kept the game relatively close (closer than anyone outside of the east thought).
Main Jack,
There is another way to look at it. Hartwick pulled out some miracles at home to win the games they did, they were terrible on the road all year and inconsistent. Most would agree they were the 4th best team in the conference (not one of our best as you suggest) this year which would make them a middle of the pack E8 team. Also if the OAC is so amazing, why did Capital lose? I mean they weren’t playing Mount Union, and you guys were talking about the wonderous defense they had, but they gave up 34 didn’t they. The OAC is a good conference but outside of Mount Union they are not what they are hyped up to be THIS year.
You know what I don’t think MainJack mentioned Hartwick (outside of saying the E8 went 1-2 today), apologies sir….My eyes read something that wasn’t there. Booby’s bad.
Whoa, this thread is losing a bit of context after the quotes from SJF Fan were pulled (rigfhtfully) …. so TDD’s remarks stand out a bit more.
Nonetheless, the bottom line: MUC was not going to loss this game. They put well-over 500 yards of offense on Ithaca. I bet if you tell any coach that they have nearly 150 yards in penalties and win by 24, they’d be very happy.
Give Ithaca credit for playing MUC closer than most folks expected, but don’t turn this into the near-upset of the century. It ain’t. Not close.
As for knocking the OAC for losing to UWW … that’s clueless. UWW has ended its past two seasons in the Stagg (translation for East fans: the d3 championship game) and the WIAC is a conference like nothing most Empire 8 folks have ever seen,
MainJack – We’re both right – You showing that it was just a few more points than Otterbein. And with mine, more than the entire OAC in ’07.
TDD – just for clarification, It was not me that said the OAC teams looked at the games vs. MUC as an automatic loss, it was someone from Capital. And to your point about playing the teams each year in conference and knowing what they’re doing etc. – wouldn’t that lend itself to a closer score then as you continue to play that team (51-1)??
My original point that I continually have to point out is that the East will likely prove to be MUC’s toughest competition YTD as it looked as if for ’07 anyway, that the OAC appeared to be have an off year. Most outside of the East, it seemed after reading several posts viewed the Region as a doormat, and my hope was that the playoffs will prove otherwise.
Statesmen78 – on the fake punt – is that a play called in by the coach or was it a call at the line by the protector?
Down 3-0, it did seem like an overly aggressive call.
repete – I don’t think anyone is claiming it was a near upset. I’ve gone back and read here and on Post Patterns, and the general consensus was that it was a competitive game and that is about it.
At one point IC did have the lead I thought I read that, but after that, MUC did have control – I wasn’t there, only from what I read.
Several people on the on Ohio board are thanking IC for the first competitive game of the season. I promptly warned them that they run the risk of their posts being deleted.
I’d also like to point out a double standard here. Strong adjective use seems to be appropriate anytime someone is putting down an East team or conference. Yet, it is intolerable when directed at OAC.
Double standard, of course! MUC’s closest OAC games were by 35 and 37 points to BW and Capital. And Capital was a 7 seed. I’d say that Ithaca over performed to the expectations of many. In the poll in Post Patterns, most of the non-IC people were picking MUC by at least 40 points. MUC fans spent part of the week discussing how many pushups their cheerleaders would have to do. When they finished that, they moved on to a discussion of the mascot. The actual game with IC was hardly discussed after Monday.
SFF Fan, head coach is also the special teams coach. He has pulled off plays like that and has been mostly successful, but not today. I agree, it wasn’t a smart move. SJF is not St. Lawrence. However, as I noted I think the better team won. I was very impressed with Fisher’s D. Smoke Curry!!!! I’ll be there.
sjf fan: give it a rest. the axe grinding is why you were removed. move on. we get that you don’t like being moderated but it is a fact of life here.
repeat-no one stated it was almost a near upset. IC had chances to make the game close, if the did its a one score game late but they didnt convert on their chances. MUC did their thing as usual. They found a weakness and exploited it, they went No-huddle alot and ripped the exhausted IC D.
I love the OAC and Mount Union….they are grand.
We in the East bow to you. I love you too Capital!
I love Pat.
I love my posts/opinion not be censored!
GO MUC…FIGHT…WIN….
What a heartbreaker !!! Kudos to North Central for the changes they made to defense in the second half — 35 points allowed in the first 30 minutes, 7 in the second half – mostly in the pressure brought against Rupp. And for the LAST play 19 yard TD pass to win it 44-42. Most will only see the HCAC go 0-2 on the day … GRIZ deserve better !!! NC a good team … but the CCIW rep had everything they could handle all day from Franklin. Leonard’s program on the rise … two BIG steps this year — Conference champs and play-offs for the first time ever. Colts didn’t win the Super Bowl without a few losses along the way !!! And LOTS of GRIZ back on both side sof the ball next year !! Hope to see all true D3 fans here next year !! Thanks for letting me play along !
I’m thinking that Curry at 11-0 for the regular season, now 12-0, including a large margin of victory over 9-1 Plymouth and a win in the 1st round of the NCAAs is showing that they should have been deserving of a Top 25 showing at some point this season.
I was wondering if Hobart had off this week for Thx Giving perhaps? I thought the showing was a little light in attendance given the proximity to SJFC.
Perhaps regarding Curry, but if they don’t play anyone during the regular season it is impossible to give them a Top 25 slot.
Even now all they’ve done is beat a team they were already ahead of in the voting.
Just as an aside, as the random posters continue to downplay the East (which is getting just tiring), MUC announcers, fans and players all said this was the toughest game they had all season.
Just because your teams didn’t come to play vs MUC this year, don’t be bitter. 3 touchdowns and 18 points is more than the entire conference put up this year. Never mind Juvan putting up 324 yards passing against the #1 Defense in D3.
This is one of those moral victories for the Bombers, where we played better than a lot of people expected, but in the end, moral victories don’t keep you playing.
Glad that MUC has to face some new blood vs the East this year, and props to them for going out of Region next year to play SJF.
Keep in mind that Hartwick is the same team that almost lost to Utica. 3-7 UTICA. If they hadn’t won the E8, they probably would not have made the playoffs at all.
Werd GB, Curry beat down the 4th best team in the E8….
If you were to include the ECACs – E8 is 2-2 on the day.
Tough day for the Liberty League though: 0-4 (RPI and Hobart bounced in the NCAAs, U of R lost to AU, and Union lost to Cortland.)
Pat,
What is the competition like in the NEFC? I’m not intending to stir anything up, I’m just trying to get a barometer on how good Curry may be. I’m assuming by your earlier statement about their opponents this year that the level of competition is below that of the LL, E8, NJAC, and other Eastern conferences. Am I correct in making that assumption? With that, I’m puzzled by Hartwick’s 2 losses now to NEFC teams. Granted I didn’t think Hartwick was a very good 2 loss team going into the playoffs but nevertheless they were co-champs in the E8 this year. What are your thoughts?
1993: The general consensus is that it’s the worst conference in Division III. They play so few out of conference games that they can’t really shake that reputation — most of their “non-conference games” are crossover games against their other division.
They may well get out of the cellar now, if not because of the win then because of some membership changes in the conference just ahead of them. 🙂 But the NEFC is almost entirely a closed conference, and with such an inbred schedule it’s hard to give them any benefit of the doubt.
Booby,
Thanks for the disclaimer. I read your first comment, and I was thinking to myself…”I don’t remember saying anything about Hartwick.” I figured either I had too much to drink today, or Alzheimer’s is setting in. Probably a little of both. Cheers.
Those posts at 4:02 and 4:03 weren’t me, they were Pat logged in as me.
Does anyone know how many TDs Ithaca scored vs. MUC compared to the entire OAC?
Well – It looks like HSC strong non-conference schedule really paid off today. Uh Pat? Wow did I also call that NCWC upset? Guess it does pay to man up and play tough competition early in the year instead of a bunch of cupcakes. Maybe the committee should take into consideration other numbers instead of the OBVIOUSLY flawed ones. Big Ups for the USA South Conference!!!
You and Keith, RF. 🙂
It sure does help to play tough competition — I would never dispute that. But the numbers showed what they showed. Do you have numbers you’d suggest they use?
“Just as an aside, as the random posters continue to downplay the East (which is getting just tiring)”
Your side of the group is just as guilty of beating the [expletive] out of this topic.
The East has downplayed itself, by comparison with the other three regions, in the expanded playoffs era. This is not debateable.
What it has to do with this season, well that’s debateable, and feel free to go at it all week long.
Ithaca played well today no doubt. It’s sad that a team gets pummeled (by score anyway) and we consider that a good game, but that’s how good Mount Union is, and that’s all most people have been trying to get across all week to those who refuse to accept it.
It’s in everyone’s best interest, as fans and observers not from MUC, to have other teams that play at their level and are competitive with them … doesn’t necessarily mean it will happen, but today is a start.
D3Keith Says:
November 17th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Those posts at 4:02 and 4:03 weren’t me, they were Pat logged in as me.
—–
Ah, geez, that package coming to your front step? Just kick it off the porch and run ….
I admit that I don’t know too much more outside the ODAC and USA S, but the committee and all of us have to take into consideration who these teams play. The ODAC as a whole scheduled mediocre (at best) opponents (many in the USA South). This adversely effects there opponents winn % and opp. opp. winn %. If all the conf. teams enter conf. play with undefeated or close to undefeated records, they have no choice but to have high opp. winn %.
I know that this does have some disadvantages. ( ie -No one wants to play Mt. Union and they schedule Averett)
As for NCWC its great to see upsets like this (though I thought it would be a good game). If they can get by next week I think they have a really good shot as making it to Salem. Wesley will NOT beat them twice, but I think MHB is just too good.
Question does NCWC have home field now?
Higher seed hosts throughout.
repete: Keith borrowed my laptop and I posted when I came back to it, yeah — whoops.
My spelling of debatable might be debatable.
Also, re: Ithaca being the toughest game for MUC so far, good for them. But on hand, they should be. They are one of only two playoff teams MUC has played so far.
Are we taking this L as a big moral victory?
I will say this though. The Empire 8, already ranked the fifth-strongest conference when we did the rankings in September, made a pretty good case to move up to No. 3 by getting three teams in the playoffs to the ASC’s one and the NWC’s zero.
Still a lot to settle.
Which game today did folks out there feel was the most significant? Define that however you will, as a step forward for a program or conference, as a surprise or how it relates to clearing the rest of the bracket for your future team, whatever …
One of the great things about the playoffs is to be able to see first hand some of the teams from other regions. There has been a lot of criticism of the OAC. I attended the Capital/UWW game today. After 3 quarters, it was a 6 point game. I have seen all of the home games for UWW for years. My understanding is that Captial had some significant injuries this year. Truthfully, I was very impressed with this injured version of Capital. There is no question in my mind this team would compete at a very high level in the WIAC. Congrats to Capital on a good season of fighting adversity and a very valient effort today!
Repete,
Re: The Package, will do … I sometimes read from the bottom (most recent) up, so I didn’t see those drew responses. They were just the last posts on my screen from when I last logged in, back at the Muhlenberg press box.
Going back to read those posts … you should have been able to tell they were Pat. I don’t do short and to the point. 🙂
This week and next week are the most fun … lots of teams with lots of hopes and lots of surprises (so anyone apologizing about ruining my predictions, I really never expected to go 16-0 and don’t much care to. I’m fine seeing 55-100 guys enjoying the time of their lives while my pick is wrong)
If you start to forecast ahead some of the possible matchups in the rounds of eight and four based on who was eliminated today, they tend to get less dramatic based on the presence of clear favorites in most of the possibilities (is being purposely vague)
D3Keith,
As a UWW fan, I felt like the win today against Capital was significant because of how the North bracket plays out. Without disrespecting the other teams in the bracket, I think this may have been the most difficult game for UWW until the quarterfinals.
They did have the Coleman cadence … 🙂
bleed purple,
good post and I totally agree. Part of the fun of the playoffs is the matchups like MAC-UAA and CC-ACFC, where you don’t quite know what to make of a team even if it’s undefeated and has put up some sick numbers.
As Muhlenberg proved today, every one of its numbers was legitimate. Salisbury is a big, strong, fast team that didn’t play all that well early on, tied the game up in the fourth and then got hit up for the game-changing play by a swarming Mules D.
I think next week’s matchups in the Central and RFKAW&J* brackets are pretty intriguing.
I also thought there were two, maybe three games today where the Salisbury-Muhlenberg loser would have advanced against either team. Probably can say the same about UWW-Capital and a couple other games … but that’s all speculation.
* Region formerly known as W&J.
NCWC is pretty legit. Thought I told ya 🙂
Kudos to Curry and the NEFC but the E8 should of expected a stronger showing out of Hartwick! I know they are a horrible road team but to come out after giving up a TD on the opening kickoff, have your next 4 posessions result in turnoves (2 INT, 1 FUM, 1 Downs) and a 28-0 deficit at the end of the first qtr is pretty upsetting. Hartwicks QB, who had over 3000yds and 35tds coming into the game, was picked off 5 TIMES!!
With their history of not playing well on the road this year (allowing 70 to Utica and a loss to a 3-7 NEFC squad) how much blame do you put on the coaches for not getting their players ready all season long? If it was just one game I would put it on the players for not being up to it, but to have it happen all season long doesnt reflect well on the coaching staff.
RunFerrum,
Regarding scheduling, you have been beating this ODAC v. USAC drum for a while now, and even though the ODAC drubbed the USAC in interconference play, badly, you probably have a point about the ODAC’s schedules … on the surface.
Some conference teams ended up playing less-than-overwhelming schedules, but when the schedule is locked in a year or two in advance, that’s not always in a team’s control. Huntingdon, Johns Hopkins, Carnegie Mellon … those looked like more powerful opponents last year and the year before than they turned out to be this year. NCWC, as Ginn told me Week 1, had to scramble to fill a game late and didn’t have time to be choosy when adding Wesley.
So even though they deserve credit for playing a tough schedule and I think that probably helped them today vs. W&J, who hadn’t been tested quite as often, be careful how you attach intent to the schedule a team ends up with. Sometimes a team tries to schedule tough teams — and remember how much goes into scheduling, having open weeks at the same time, teams willing to trade trips of a certain distance and other top teams’ willingness to add tough opponents or schools that don’t match their profile — and it ends up being a down year for the “tough” teams they tried to schedule.
The math in OWP and OOWP is not foolproof, but it is at least something concrete people can sink their teeth into (rather than “opinion”) when it comes to determining who’s played a more difficult schedule.
So, like, did you hear any Billy Joel songs in Allentown?
What a miserable day to watch a game. Rain and cold. Fortunately, Whitewater warmed up the fans with touchdowns. Kudos to Cap – they were undaunted and toe-to-toe until some mistakes did them in. 4th string QB? Pretty respectable showing. On to the sweet sixteen …
D3Keith,
Ithaca scored three TD’s today. Otterbein scored 2 vs. Mount. No one else in the OAC scored a TD at all. Ithaca’s offense was very good today. But Kmic, Garcon and Micheli were pretty much unstoppable in the 2nd half.