Well all,
it’s mid-afternoon/early evening on a Saturday. Time to get one of these threads going.
Me? I’m in a very rainy and cold state of Iowa — trust me, anyone that cares will hear all about it in this week’s Around the Nation. Wartburg has outlasted Coe 10-7 in the rain and Central handled Cornell. Ryan Coleman and I got to see some nice campuses and nice teams, but the not-nice weather really limits how much insight one can gain on how well these teams would play on a dry day. I thought it hurt Coe especially.
As I get word of these scores, stunners are everywhere. Bridgewater not ruling the ODAC for the first time since I played, practically? Seven TDs for Chris Sharpe (jaw drops) … Del Val lost to Susque? Eiiiw. Word out of Ohio Northern and possibly DePauw is upset too, but I’m just getting my bearings. This traveling is really tiring … I do it all for you 🙂
Anyway, let’s get the Saturday chatter up…
Ok I was at the Mount game sat and I heard that the radio station broadcasting the game said that Kehres was holding Garcon out of the game as mush as possible. Why would he do this when the offense struggled so much?I saw Garcon on the sidelines basically the whole 3rd qtr.I dont know if he’s hurt or just trying to rest up for the huge game against Capital.Does anyone know???????????????????????????
Pat,
Sorry for the late response! No offense taking, you and the staff I suppose no best, that’s why I asked the question. It’s clear that they don’t have the strongest of schedules, my point was that me being new to the sight, it occurred to me that Wesley being ranked so high, and having such a stingy defense would warrant some discussions.
Tags: “What is the logic in posting Chris Sharpe’s entire stat sheet to this thread?”
The title is Immediate reactions to Week 8 results. I believe Chris Sharpe is a big part of the Week 8 story.
Tlm, we definitely consider option quarterbacks for All-American.
Looks like Springfield has a team for the ages. Hobart marches on. Cortland probably is the big dog in New York state. Ithaca can not be overlooked. Does Union have that final kick?
Can one of the Ferrum fans explain why Ferrum is only playing a 9 game
schedule this year or have I missed a game somewhere. Appears you
had off Sept 9 and Oct 20.
GOING TO ABILENE SATURDAY TO SEE SUL ROSS PLAY HARDIN-SIMMONS. IT HAS BEEN FUN TO WATCH THE LOBOS THIS YEAR, THE DEFENSE IS ON A ROLL! (OF COURSE I AM SWAYED BECAUSE MY SON IS ON DEFENSE AND OFFENSE GETS ALL THE PRESS!) ANYWAY, DOES ANYBODY (RALPH TURNER SINCE YOU TALK ABOUT THE SOUTH) THINK SULLY HAS A CHANCE?
Allsky7, the CNU loss to Rowan was not an in-region game and therefore will not be considered by the committee under primary criteria.
The way a coach can use the schedule to toughen his team is to schedule out-of-region (either evaluation region or geographic administration region) games against really hard opponents and the game does not immediately impact the chances at seeding or Pool C bids.
All of the guidelines are in the D3 2006 Football Championship Handbook. 🙂
ALSO TO RALPH TURNER: I WAS ALSO AMUSED AS I LISTENED TO THE MCMURRY BROADCAST AND FOUND MYSELF COUNTING THE TIMES THEY SAID THE “BANNED” MASCOT NAME… (WHICH I STILL DON’T UNDERSTAND WHY THE BIG SCHOOLS (DIV 1) GET TO KEEP THEIR NATIVE AMERICAN NAMES
I cannot really explain why they are only playing nine this season. They scheduled Bridgewater this year to beef up the schedule, thinking they would compete again. What I don’t understand is why we took off Emory and henry. They have been one of our longest rivals and the games are aways competitive no matter the records.
allsky7 – I think its a little bit of both. BC is just not the same team they were in years past, however every team is getting stronger in the ODAC. I really believe the USAC and ODAC have switched Personalities this year. What I mean with that is over the past few years the ODAC has a one-two team conference with the others trying to gain respect.(Obvious when looking at BC’s old conf. win streak) The USAC usually had multiple teams competing for a title, even to the last game of the season. Now Averett and CNU are just better than everyone else. In the past BC was always a threat to make it to the final 4. This year the ODAC rep. will probably lose in the first round. Whereas CNU or Averett may make some noise.
Well,
Although I think it’s appropriate to begin talking about playoff bids, I think it’s a little early for All-American stuff. You don’t have to have big passing numbers to be the All-American QB, but it does help if you’re all-conference and all-region first. 🙂
I agree with tags, I skimmed right over the senior thesis on Chris Sharpe’s stats. Doesn’t mean it’s useless, I just wasn’t sure this was the place for that. I like to read people’s original thoughts on the week here, and when I want to see the SID notes, I go to the team’s website or read their press releases.
To Wesley rom North Jersey, take the turnpike, then get on 13 after the Delaware Memorial Bridge. Dover is right on 13 … It might take a few hours jtw, but it wouldn’t seem to be a pain in the butt to me.
I doubt Kehres would save Garcon for the Capital game while the Baldwin-Wallace game was in doubt. I haven’t looked into it, but I’m sure it was something legitimate if he was held out, either injury or discipline.
No way ODAC gets two teams in. They’ll be lucky to get a home game in the first round. USAC could get two with Averett beating CNU scenario, but as it looks right now, with one of the Pool C bids going to Pool B, two losses is going to be a tall order for a playoff bid. But a lot can happen, a few years ago about six or seven playoff contenders lost on the final weekend, so some of them still got in with two losses, etc.
The only sure thing in Va. is the AQ.
Good for Don Montgomery and the Wasps; but E&H still not my personal favorite, to be diplomatic about it.
Springfield “team for the ages?” … Try not to get ahead of yourself. You’ve got one more big road game and the playoffs. Don’t set yourself up for disappointment.
The good news is Curry is really close … sounds like a first-round opponent.
I avoid the “official criteria” regarding in- and out-of-region games until I have to use it, but Ralph is right. CNU should fare well in the QOW index, which the committee uses as its strength of schedule gauge. CNU is tied for 17th with Cortland; Averett is 53rd … shows the difference between beating one of the big dogs you schedule and not.
Sul Ross would have to beat Hardin-Simmons to get into the discussion. The 45-2 loss to Mary Hardin-Baylor has me thinking they might be the best revival in the nation this season, although not a legitimate playoff threat.
I WAS AT THE UMHB-SRSU GAME AND IT WAS MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE THAN THE SCORE INDICATES. THE FIRST 4 MINUTES OF THE GAME WAS TOTAL CHAOS WITH THE REFEREES ALMOST LOSING TOTAL CONTROL. THEY KICKED OUR ONLY DEEP THREAT RECEIVER OUT OF THE GAME FOR KICKING AND IT CHANGED THE WHOLE REST OF THE GAME. BUT AS YOU INDICATED, FOR SUL ROSS TO EVEN BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY THEY HAVE TO BEAT HARDIN-SIMMONS…. WE STACK UP PRETTY EVENLY STATISTICS-WISE…WE’LL SEE…THEY ARE JUST ELATED TO BE 5-1 AND ON THE LONGEST WINNING STREAK SINCE THE 80’S
D3Keith, with the “shows the difference between beating one of the big dogs you schedule and not” comment are you suggesting Averett may have been better off scheduling teams that they would have been more competitive against? People kind of lashed out at me when I said that last week.
Does anyone else think CNU can make it to Salem this year? They have not really put it together come playoff time.
RunFerrum, Averett’s beating one of those big dogs earns you 8 more points on the Index. That changes your QOWI from 9.000 to 10.143 and moves you to a tie for 22nd, with HSU and Wooster.
Wesley is reasonable drive for Pat Cummings (who went there last year) and me (who will go there next year with Del Val).
So maybe Wolvernine fans will have to tolerate one of us instead.
RunFerrum……I was tempted to get in the middle of that debate about Averett’s scheduling but my better judgement took control. 🙂 I thought your comments on that subject had some merit. I think scheduling “these types” of teams is sort of a double edged sword. Then again MU is not just any ordinary quality opponent. I am not sure that losing to two highly ranked teams will help the Cougars much (except for the purpose of measuring progress) but CNU beating MHB will certainly help them. I think your point about scheduling someone you have some chance against is valid but that can be a tough thing to do year to year when most scheduling contracts are multi year. Case in point: My understanding is that H-SC dropped Maryville and picked up Johns Hopkins a few years ago to strengthen their schedule. It is debatable whether JH is any stronger this year than MC. I think you mentioned in an earlier post Bridgewater as being a better opponent for Averett. Of course looking at things now, Averett would have a good chance of beating BC. But in the context of looking at it pre season, IMO, the Eagles would have been a good quality opponent for Averett. My contact at Averett told me that the Cougars held their own against a good Wesley team so maybe that was a good choice. Of course with MU, that wasn’t the case. Then again, MU has done the same thing to many very good football teams. I guess we will just have to leave the scheduling to the powers that be and then we can debate about whether it was a good choice or not.
While I have not seen CNU play in person this year, in my estimation, they could win a game or two in the playoffs but are a long shot to make it to Salem. WOW, what a profound / go out on a limb statement that was!! 🙂
allsky7 – I think your answer to the Should/not Averett have scheduled Mt. Union and Wesley was the best I have heard on here. I think some Cougar fans were a little angry with me for my comments but thats how I felt. As for Averett, I would love nothing more than for 2 USAC teams to make the playoffs…well unless one of them were to be Ferrum……I think at the end of the season, Averett will look back and think what if we had not scheduled those teams in the first two weeks…what if…Now they have to win at CNU…and unfortunately CNU does not lose in the USAC when the other team is good. You have to sort of get the jump on them when their not looking.
As for the playoffs, I think CNU can beat anyone outside Mt. Union and UW Whitewater. CNU’s fault is they play to their competition.
CNU, with one playoff win in team history, can beat anyone except MUC and UWW? Lay down the crack pipe and step away. Teams that are that good simply do not “play to their competition.”
And didn’t they get bombed by Rowan in the opener?
Why is it that Hobart is not getting any respect in the polls? As said before they are 6-0 and 4-0 in the very tough liberty league.
As far as Alfred not being ranked yet, just look at their schedule the past four games, wins over Husson, Utica, Hartwick and Norwich. Not exactly the most impressive schedule. None the less they are still a tough team that should give Hobart a battle this Saturday.
Springfield I feel has established themselves as the dominant team in the east followed closely by Cortland then Hobart and Rowan are tied in third with Saint John Fisher and Ithaca rounding out the top in the east. Rowan continues to be unimpressive, but they are still winning and that is all that matters. Their Nov. 4 showdown with Cortland will tell us all if they are for real or not. Nov.4 appears to be the big day for the east and more closely the NJAC and the LL, with Cortland at Rowan and Union at Hobart. This should make for a great weekend that will decide both conferences and help decide what is going on in the east and who should be on top come playoff time.
Someone asked if RPI runs the table they will be 7-2, and will they be in the playoffs or not. There are a lot of good teams in the east this year. Their loss to Saint Lawrence potentially could be their undoing. There most likely will be two teams coming out of the E8 as well as two teams in the NJAC. So it doesn’t look good for the second place team in the LL. All RPI can do is keep winning and hope Hobart beats Union and some other teams in the east lose, Otherwise they have no chance.
Ron Boerger – I said CNU can beat anyone outside of the top two teams. I also believe they can make it to the final four. CNU has proven it can win against top teams. Your right they got “bombed” by Rowan but didn’t a certain Wesley team get “bombed” worse during the season last year? It was CNU’s first game and they came out flat. They have two playoff wins, not one, in reaching the playoff 4 out of their first 5 years of even having a playoff team. They have proved they can beat the really good teams (MHB) but they play down to teams like Shenandoah. CNU has the players to compete against almost anyone…Oh that MHB team they beat is ranked higher than Rowan. I really believe CNU has better odds at making the final 4 than losing game one of the playoffs.
Umm, your argument about CNU being flat in its first game applies perfectly well to UMHB … who still almost beat you at your place. Try again.
Two playoff wins in five years, yep, that makes you a perfect candidate for being the third-best team in the country. Sorry for the mistake! 🙂
My argument has been that CNU can make it to the Final 4. Not that they will, but they have the team to do it. For a program that has only been in play now for 5 years, 4 playoff appearences and two victories are far from terrible. Since week one, CNU has consistently gotten better. Until the teams lose in front of them, they are not worthy of being ranked in the top 10. The point is that they can play and can win against good teams.
With springfields big win on saturday, union’s lost in week one to them isnt looking that bad. With a top WR coming back in the next few weeks look for union to be a powerhouse in the playoffs.
Week 8 is over and there were some upsets and other mildly surprising results. The ONU loss is a puzzler, so much for the OAC getting three teams in (although Cap-BW might have bearing on that).
Now, I will officially begin the hype:
This Saturday in Alliance #1 Mount Union vs. #4 Capital.
In this Capital alum and OAC fan’s humble opinion, this is the biggest regular season game in Division III this season. Capital pushed Mount to the brink last season, and despite some key losses on the defense and in the receiving corps from that team, the game this weekend would seem to promise the same. If Rocky is on like he was last year in the playoffs, he can beat just about anybody. Mount is Mount, they are very strong on both sides and with Kmic and Garcon can beat you on the ground or in the air. I would guess that you have to play to stop the run and hope your DBs can cover Garcon. I think Cap’s DBs are as good as any in the country, and we will see if they are up to the task.
I would assume that this would be the game of the week for the guys at d3football.com and that several of you will be in Alliance. I also suspect that this game might be broadcast on TV for those of you in Ohio (at a minimum on tape delay on ONN).
I can’t wait. UNfortunately, I won’t be able to attend, or even to listen, as my job (US Army) has me away in the field this weekend, training future Lieutenants. Of all the weekends, we had to go to the field THIS one.
Looking forward to reading about a great game.
I’m an Eastern Region guy but I am totally stoked for Mt Union-Capital. I agree it is has the promise of D3 Game of the Year. But I say “promise,” only because Mt Union has a habit of turning these games into beat downs. Good luck to your team JK.
D3Keith
I know what Ralph was up too… And unfortunately I too am an Phila. Eagles fan and know what jynxs can be. You know the Philly fan motta. Whatever can go wrong….. But the nice thing about Ralph’s wishes is that Wesley is scaring the heck out of the south !!!
Bart52, I don’t have an argument with Hobart’s current ranking. #17 is’nt too shabby! And some of those wins were come from behind nail-biters. However, IF our team runs the table, I would expect to be top 10. All of the remaining teams on the schedule are very worthy opponents. The next 2 weeks (at Alfred and then Union) will be the toughest, but where did Rochester come from? They have really turned things around! Union’s only loss was to Springfield, so if they beat us and don’t stumble elsewhere, they go and we don’t. I agree, that weekend is hugh. Can’t wait!
Just got back from Tampa……….ahhhhh, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!!! The Philadelphia faithful showed up in full force around the Tampa area and at the game. Nobody’s fans travel more and better than Eagles fans (and nobody’s fans have absorbed more punishment as well). That which doesn’t kill you only makes you stronger!!!! Tampa……strange place……beautiful women and a lot of hillbillies. Anybody seen “Deliverance”??
Sounds like a heckuva weekend in D3 land……what did I miss?? Just kidding!!
Statesmen78/Bart52-
No sense fretting over the D3Football rankings. First off, the only rankings which “count” are the AFCA rankings whether you agree with them or not. Secondly, and most importantly, making it into the playoffs is all that will matter. The LL is yours to take, and with it the automatic bid. A 1 loss Pool C bid is also a possibility if your only loss is to Union.
The crazy thing is even the AFCA rankings don’t mean that much once you get into the playoffs, because the first round is influenced by geographical location. For instance Rowan might be #1 in the east, but Springfield might draw the NEFC Champion simply because of locality.
But arguing over the D3Football rankings is a lot of fun so carry on… 🙂
No D3 football in Florida, so don’t worry about upsetting the Tampa fans.
Not sure if I should be happy the Eagles have had a chance to win all seven games or mad they blew three of them. But they made the mistakes to lose all those games, despite the brutal fashion it’s been happening. You can pinpoint the causes at least.
Why do the AFCA rankings count more than D3football.com? I think you might be confusing the AFCA with the NCAA rankings, and even they don’t “count,” they’re just done by the same people who eventually select the playoff field, so they’re a good indication of which way they’re leaning.
No poll has any influence on the playoff field. They are strictly a measure for fans’ enjoyment.
That’s what’s great about Division III. Polls judge the 25 strongest teams, but championships are settled on the field, and never the two shall meet.
Bart 52,
If you could take the blinders off for a second, you’d see Hobart is right where they belong. I’ve had them as high as 12th this season and as low as the 20s. Winning repeatedly by the skin of your teeth is still winning, but there are enough Division III teams around the country winning impressively for them to get passed in the polls. Same goes for Rowan.
The Liberty League is strong in the sense that its teams are competitive with each other, but with respect to other leagues in Division III, it has never been more than middling. After Hobart and Union were both competitive with East powers in the playoffs last year, we’ve moved it into 10th of 25 in our conference rankings.
As Statesmen78 said, No. 17 is not bad given the circumstances. That’s still more respect than unbeaten teams like Curry, St. Norbert and Mount St. Joseph are getting.
RunFerrum,
answering your questions from the post at 12:20
I just meant what Ralph said with the comment I made. Beating a team that beats a lot of other teams really helps your QOW, which is an SOS index with a major impact on Pool B and C bids and seeding.
As far as CNU in the playoffs, I think they compare favorably to Wesley last year … i.e. fast and multi-faceted, and tough enough on defense to win in the first few rounds.
The deeper they get, it just depends on the matchup, the site, the weather and how well they play, to be honest.
Elsewhere, RunFerrum, bart52 and allsky7 … you all make some good points. I won’t list them or repeat them, but since I’m critical when necessary, I should also dish out praise when deserved.
“I would assume that this would be the game of the week for the guys at d3football.com and that several of you will be in Alliance.”
You assumed wrong.
First off, there aren’t “several” of us available to travel anywhere in the nation each week. Most of us are very limited in where we can go and when, due to real jobs, family lives, site budget, etc.
Pat and I will be in Texas for No. 2 Whitewater vs. No. 6 UMHB. Mount Union-Capital is just as big, but we could only pick one, and as we mentioned on the Around the Nation thread when this came up a week or two ago, we’ve been burned many times going to big games in Alliance that become blowouts. That may not be the case this weekend, but we have learned to spread the wealth, as there will be several opportunities most likely to go to Ohio in the playoffs.
Also personally, I want to encourage this kind of agressive non-conference scheduling, and since I couldn’t make Hardin-Simmons/Linfield, I really wanted to be there this week. I think if elite teams who have the choice to schedule each other do so, and manage to still be elite when the game comes up, we should make it our Game of the Week whenever possible.
PA_wesleyfan, from the first week in “kid’s” South Region Fan Poll, Wesley has been my number 1. They inherited that place from last season’s playoffs, and they seem to be justifying my continued support. The advantage is that by the time that a Texas team will be that deep in the playoffs, the Texas weather is only lower 50’s at most and Dover can be freezing rain and sleet, (e.g., ETBU at Lycoming in the snow on November 29th, 2003).
IMHO, that is a big factor! You just can’t get used to that…kinda like the Dome teams curse for the Super Bowl. UMHB did it in Alliance in 2004 (great picture on the UMHB web site), but that is uncommon.
UMHB also won at W&J that year. Then again, they were built to run the ball, so their style was fine for the Northeast/Great Lakes in December, all they needed was some warm undershirts (not by those brand-name guys who chose not to advertise with D3 years ago) and they were good.
That was a special team.
I think the stories of wrong shoes for weird turf are funny. The Occidental in ’85 story and probably Wesley last year at UWW are good ones to hear.
I guess I was getting a little too focused on the rankings. We just need to take care of business on the field and the rest will fall in line.
D3keith,
You are correct about their ranking it is where they belong; I will agree too many nail bitters early in the season. But Dickinson appears stronger than many expected. Sorry if I was being a bit of homer. I try to stay as neutral as possible but sometimes your loyalty to your team gets the best of you.
As far as a team like curry is concerned their league is less than impressive. Just look at Coast Guard for example. Im not taking anything away from either team Curry or Coast Guard they are having great years but their league is not quite a powerhouse. If possible, which im not sure they can, Curry should try to schedule some of those first three non league games with some teams other then the Bogan division. It would be nice to see how they fair outside the NEFC.
But again, I apologize for my getting a little carried away with my disproval of Hobart’s rankings. As I said before we just need to take care of business on the field and the rest will fall in line. Do think what statesmen78 said about us winning out and cracking the top 10 is a possibility, and what kind of status do u think that would put us in the east. But we just need to take it one game at a time, with this tough end of the season stretch coming up. Should be fun to watch.
bart,
Yeah, I meant to mention that about the Dickinson win in the opener being more impressive now than it was then. And the Curry thing, that was sort of my point … that there are other undefeated teams that get even less poll respect.
If I were you guys, I wouldn’t concern myself with being top 10 in the poll. I’d rather be ranked 12th and have a home playoff game or two … a high seeding in the East bracket and good first-round matchup (although it will likely be someone from New York or awful close to it) is what you want.
Keith,
I understand about real life. If you caught the bottom of my post, I can’t be there or even be at the computer to listen. It kills me because I am from just outside of Alliance and my mom now lives in town, about three blocks from MUC’s stadium (she retired from teaching last year and is now the President of the Alumni council at Mount, so maybe she’ll go to the game). I was planning on packing up the baby and letting Grandma babysit while I went down to the game. Unfortunately, the Army being what it is…
I also know there aren’t a lot of you guys out there at d3 sports, but I just made an assumption that you or Pat or somone would be there. You know what they say about assume… makes an a$$ of u and me.
Have fun in Texas. If nothing else it wil be warmer than Alliance and some of your recent travels. I look forward to your column on the UW-W vs MHB game. I think you will miss a great game in Alliance though.
If I missed a great game, that would be good … as long as I also catch one. Nothing worse than being at a dud while a barnburner is going on elsewhere (I’m thinking Mount-SJU semifinal in ’01 while Bridgewater and Rowan had that crazy finish about two hours from home … D’oh!)
Army, huh? I appreciate that. Stay safe.
Is this time of year great or what?