Game day: Round of 16

We’re a little more than an hour from kickoff on the three Eastern Time Zone games Saturday, in Alliance, Ohio; Crawfordsville, Ind.; and Cortland, N.Y. will be coming to you live from the home of the Red Dragons with audio at noon, and will cap the day with a broadcast of UW-Whitewater at Willamette at 3 p.m. The defending national champions and the West No. 1 seed have the “airwaves” to themselves in a broadcast that’s not online elsewhere, and doesn’t feature live stats or video (that we know of).

If one of the four Central Time Zone games is what you’re after, we’ll be around to chat and provide updates about those too.

Links to video (from Millsaps and Monmouth), live stats (from Mount Union, Wabash, Mary Hardin-Baylor and North Central) and audio from all eight games are on our scoreboard page.

The floor is open. Have at it.

242 thoughts on “Game day: Round of 16

  1. In response to Bartman’s posts (and the responses):

    Do some of the Mount fans that post on here come across as cocky, arrogant, and generally annoying? Yeah, and I have no problem voicing my opinion on that. But you have to admit, their team plays by the same rules as everyone else, and they do a darn good job of it. Look at their scores over the last 4 years. Only a handful of teams have given them a real fight in that time, and only two have managed to beat them.

    Like it or not, you have to respect the level of excellence that Coach Kehres and his teams have displayed over the years. Since I came to UW-Whitewater in 2005, I’ve had the pleasure of watching the Warhawks win 53 games, but none was sweeter than their 2007 Stagg Bowl victory over Mount Union. I read these boards after that game. The MUC fans didn’t turn off their computers and go away, and they were understandably disappointed, but they were respectful.

    Bottom line: Every other DIII team has the same opportunities as MUC. They have put in the effort to build and maintain an outstanding program, and continue to face every challenger. There is a system in place for teams to prove their abilities on the field, where respect and championships are earned (UT and Texas Tech fans need not comment).

  2. When I say your clueless Bartman, that’s not calling you a name, that’s stating a fact. So my post now has officially at least one more fact in it than your last two posts combined. Moreover, my comments were made towards your post, not you as an individual. But don’t call me friend…that word doesn’t apply here. Do you even know how many of those players do or don’t graduate and then go onto great careers in their chosen field? If you do give me a percentage.

    MUC is very challenging academically, across the board, and I know because I’m a fairly recent graduate,and know too many people to list who know it is as well. You say Mount Union hasn’t been on “ANY” top liberal arts list last time you looked – well, you must not have looked any time in the last 14 years. Look it up – Mount Union has been ranked a top liberal arts college in the Midwest for 14 consecutive years. Could Mount Union do better? Sure, any school could do better. And this isn’t a “my school is smarter than your school” or ” my school has been on such and such list” competition. I’m attacking your comments because you say that Mount Union kicks kids to the curb without a great education and I’m not going to allow slander like that to just go unchecked. You’re saying football wins out over education. No one at Mount Union is putting any young person’s education ahead of some damn championship trophy. NO ONE. Your comments – did you get that, not you your comments – lack integrity, as so much as you didn’t even bother to look anything up before spouting off the “ANY list” comment.

    You don’t know Mount Union…I and others on here do. You can continue to have this argument with yourself from here on out….but I just wanted to be on record stating that your comments are amazingly off-base. I don’t know why I let posters like you get me all riled up…oh that’s right…yes I do. It’s because I can’t stand it when those who achieve a certain standard get slandered by posers like you. Okay, that one was aimed at you bartman.

  3. And I’ll apologize if any of my comments on football come off cocky…
    I’m just a fan who loves his alma mater for all that it is, including it’s football program….

  4. Bartman: “That cost is the hopes and dreams of young men.”

    Every single one of those young men that sign up for the football program at MUC know exactly what they’re getting into, I’m sure. Those that “never see the varsity field” probably come in knowing that. They just want to be a part, however small, of something wonderful.

    That’s all I’ll say for now, even though I disagree with much more about Barman’s post. I will leave saying that this conversation reminds me of this comic:

  5. Ha…guilty as charged WarhawkTrombone…guilty as charged. I’ll stick to football from now on….

  6. I am a UMHB fan and I can tell you since UMHB beat MUC in Alliance the program has got nothing but better. MUC is a dynasty but they work hard at what they do and that is why they win 14-15 games a year. I will admit I didn’t like one of the coaches who stormed the field during the Stagg Bowl last year. I think he embarrassed the program. However, I’m not a hater but a appreciater. MUC is great and always will be as long as the current coaching staff is around. I have predicted them to beat my CRU in the Stagg Bowl. I have to give credit where credit is due. I think people who slam MUC on this site have envy and are haters. Get over it haters!!!!

  7. Bartman should look for a website called if he’s interested in talking academics. This is and here we talk about football and how Hobart got smacked in the mouth like most other MUC opponents. As the commercial states “most of these athletes will be professionals in something other than sports”. That’s the montra of D3 and it applies to all of the liberal arts schools including Mount Union. None of these guys are on athletic scholarships and who knows why they chose to go to MU. Whether its the great academic standards, laxed academic standards, proximity to home, or a great place for lesser talented high school athletes to play football, they still kicked the crap out of Hobart, and I doubt any of them wishes they were “Statesmen”.

    This happens every year when someone starts bragging about how their school is going to take down Mount Union, or anyone else for that matter, and when it doesn’t happen they throw charges at them about how they have horrible ethics or academic standards or some other non-football related garbage. All of these schools are good schools and probably have a long list of successful graduates if you cared to do some research.

    Do you want to know why so many MUC fans had to ask where Hobart was…BECAUSE NONE OF THEM REALLY GIVES A CRAP ABOUT HOBART! They’ve probably never heard of the school, never considered going there, and didn’t feel like wasting their time looking up info on a football program that would leave town 3 hours after it got there with a 35 point whipping attached to their backsides. Don’t feel slighted becasue folks in Ohio don’t know anything, or don’t care to know anything, about Hobart. Reality check…the school is only important to you and the few others that have been there.

    This reminds me of the chant “We don’t care, its okay, you’ll be working for us someday” (Knox college students to Monmouth students during the Scots 56-10 thumping of the Prairie Fire)…get real morons. Take your beatings with dignity and try not to embarass your entire institution in doing so.

  8. WOW, there are alot of angry people out there. I’m left with the impression of a gorrilla pounding his chest when challenged. If you folks would bother to actually read the post and keep your petty emotions out of it (which a well educated person would do), you would see that nowhere did I say that MUC was NOT a dominant football program. In fact I believe that I said that Hobart was “soundly beat” on the field of play. Not only that, but I said that if fathers wanted their kids to win a National Championship, they should send their sons to MUC. Initially, my beef was with arrogant fans. This is certainly supported by your posts, much of which can be summed up in a few words: “We win, we’re great, shut up, Moron, go home, poser, we don’t give a crap about Hobart…etc, etc”. Most of this stuff actually supports my claim that MUC fanatics do their institution a disservice by being so arrogant and self-centered. MUC01nashdavis wants facts, heres one: MUC accepts almost 80% of their applicants. This is by no means selective. Got a heartbeat…come to MUC. There doesn’t seem to be alot of introspection going on with you folks, all you do is point to the scorebaord and say, “look, we’re great”. Well, like I said before, you may win games, but your not great. I never bragged that our team would “take down” MUC. In fact, I went into the game just hoping it would be close. It was for awhile but then MUC ran away with it. However, MUC was embarrrased by our punt team (2 fake punts and a fake, fake punt) and frankly, if they didn’t have that great running back (what’s his name?), would not be nearly as good as they are. You folks also have glossed over the fact that the Hobart team did not have their two most potent offensive stars and the O-Line was not healthy. Thes are not excuses, but facts. Bottom line, you beat a hobbled team. No matter, it is part of the game and that is how it goes. If you guys feel good pounding your collective chests, then have at it.

    Your disregard for all those kids that come to MUC wrongly thinking they might play is truly astounding. All you folks have to say about that is, “so what, they are happy to be part of THE program” and “we play by the rules, we’re just great at it”. If you have no problem sacrificing these young men so you can have your “best program in the land”, then so be it. I feel sorry for the kids and your shallow thinking.

    muc01nashvegas also said that MUC is on some minor regional lists as a TOP school. Sorry, I should have been more clear (you would think I was educated at MUC). MUC is not part of any NATIONAL list. I wrongly assumed, muc01nashvegas (my dear friend), that since you care so much about national rankings that you would also automatically compare the academics on a national level. Hey, how about that, you are fanatically proud of your nationally ranked football team, but when it comes to academics, you go straight to the regional rankings. Sort of proves my point that you are way more interested in the ‘football dynasty” than you are of the academic program. How shameful.

    My final point in my initial post holds true, and it is to all the parents out there that want the best for their son, which is I think ALL parents. You can send your son to MUC and hope that he might play (the numbers say he won’t) on a great team and get an education that is poor by comparison to say…the WHOLE Liberty League. Or you can send your son to get a top notch education and watch him play on the varsity for a couple of years. My guess is that some of the people posting here would much rather have their son sitting a bench (or not even dressing) and getting an average education than what is really good for their son…a great education and varsity playing time.

    To say that these kids would rather sit the bench and be part of something “wonderful” is truly self-serving and, frankly, ridiculous. You really shouldn’t speak for those downtrodden and dissapointed kids like that. Let them speak for themselves, unless of course you were one of them.

    To say I “envy” the program is way off base. I feel sorry for the program and the school because it’s values (football program over kids and academics) are many times driven by fanatics such as those writing on this blog. Pride goeth before the fall.

    You guys are all about predictions, heres one for you: 20 years from now there will be hundreds of fathers talking to their son about the “wonderful” program they were part of. The son will ask, “what position did you play, Dad?” and Dad will have to say…”Well, actually, I never played”. But my education got me my job at the Quickie-Mart.

  9. “Most of this stuff actually supports my claim that MUC fanatics do their institution a disservice by being so arrogant and self-centered.”

    “But my education got me my job at the Quickie-Mart.”

    Sounds like the old pot and kettle comparison. Who’s the arrogant one in this conversation?

  10. I mean, I’m not even an alum of Mount Union, but I would sure say there’s only one person being arrogant in this conversation. And he’s not putting a very nice face on Hobart.

  11. Well I’ve been sitting back and reading all these posts the past few days. Being a MUC fan I can honestly say to Bart I apologize for the arrogance and lack of respect that my fellow alums are showing here. MUC is a great football program, but realize this, by bringing in 94 freshmen we ARE giving false hope to many young men. I don’t know one athlete that is happy just being part of a program. Any athlete I know wants to play, not be a body for practice. Only one I know that was like that was RUDY.

    So all you MUC alums out there. Let’s start showing a little more class, ok? But if your sitting here all day and putting this much energy into a blog, I guess you just wanna show Bart that maybe you didn’t get a good education at MUC. You’re obviously not at a high level job, because you’re here and not WORKING!!!

  12. Alum,
    All I’m asking is for people to be a bit more introspective, which these MUC folks seem unable to do. If you feel I’m the only one being arrogant, then you need a good dose of introspection yourself. If by “good face” you mean I don’t pander to shallow thinkers and football fanatics, then your right. Hobart does not really need my defense. The great tradition in academics AND football speak for themselves. If you would bother to read all of the posts all the way through, there are plenty of compliments on the football tradition of winning at MUC. My whole question was, and is: at what cost? If you think there is no cost, then your not thinking clearly.

  13. bartman,

    Before you go ripping on MUC’s academic reputation any further, can you please just accept one quick elementary school grammar lesson? “Your” is possessive, as in “Your school is awesome”. “You’re” is a contraction, meaning “you are”.

    I know that is not relevant to football, but it is just one of those things that annoys me. Anyway, back to the topic at hand…

  14. wisportsfan,
    Thanks for the correction, I had also noticed it but it was after I hit the submit button. This happens when I think faster than my fingers can fly.

  15. Bartman,
    I’m sorry you had such a bad experience last Saturday at the stadium. You should know that not ALL Mount Union fans are as arrogant as some of those you encountered. You can surely appreciate, I hope, that given the team’s success over the years we’ve attracted a lot of fans who aren’t graduates but have lived in town all of their lives. Naturally, they take a lot of pride in the team’s success and sometimes carry that enthusiasm a little far. Personally, I try to treat all our out of town friends with respect.
    I suspect, however, you have an enormous chip on your shoulder. From what, I’m not sure. Your posts ARE filled with arrogance; you demand respect for your opinions yet demean the all-time leading rusher and scorer in Division III history (it’s Nate Kmic, by the way).
    I attended Mount Union, many years ago, and am proud of my degree from there. Just as I am proud of what the football program has accomplished. At the end of the day, I’ve yet to be offered a job because of what the football team has done.
    Hobart is a fine institution, as well, and I’m sure you are justly proud of your association with the school. I’d have more respect for your opinion, though, if you spent a little less time trying to boost the your position by demeaning every one else’s.
    Mount Union’s quarterback, Greg Micheli (or what’s his name, if you prefer), is a finalist for the Draddy Award, which is a scholarship award presented to a college football player, regardless of division, and is based on performance, academics and community service. He’s a wonderful representative of the college, and I’d encourage you to engage him in a conversation some day. Maybe your opinion of our college would change.

  16. raiders#1,
    I accept your apology in regards to the MUC fans that were so arrogant and demeaning to the Hobart program. Thank you.

    I certainly understand why you would be proud of the accomplishments of your football team. Your loyalty to your Alma Mater is honorable. You have been the first respondent that has gotten his point across (I’ll overlook the obvious attempts to insult) without resorting to name calling.

    No chip, just truth, facts and strong opinion. The reason that I put (what’s his name) in the post is because I wanted to show the MUC people how it felt to have so many MUC fans come up to me and ask…”Where is Hobart from?” Since you took offense to it, I guess it worked. Maybe the MUC folks will be more sensitive next time.

    I’m not trying to boost my opinion at all, just trying to inform and get the MUC people to realize that DIII football (and MUC’s prowess on the field) is small potato’s given the big picture. The big picture being education and the many athletes that go to MUC with the dream of playing and then getting squashed of thier dreams. I am also making an academic comparison between MUC and the Liberty League colleges and Universities.

    My opinion of your college is not bad at all, just the fans and thier refusal to allow any dissenting views of their football program. When I see and read people pounding their chests about how great they are, I think a bit of dissent and analysis is healthy, don’t you? It seems odd to me that no-one really wants to have an actual discussion about the issues.

  17. raiders#1 and Bartman,

    Finally we get a reasonable and respectable exchange. Everyone take a look and LEARN!!!

  18. Wow, I logged off on Saturday after my team got beat and haven’t been back to the site since. While in my state of pouting about my team being out of it, all hell breaks loose!!! What’s going on here men? I did see where one of my comments was referred to as” sore grapes”. In the Finger Lakes wine country, (that’s where Hobart is) we call it sour grapes. Perhaps an “Ohioism” thus I dare not be critical as you guys appear to outnumber us East bloggers and I have to be honest, you frighten me a bit too. However, I won’t chastize your spelling as I’m probably putting something in the wong tense or mispelling something here myself, despite my Hobart education. It’s fun rooting for our respective teams and yes, we get emotional at times. I myself am guilty of assessing MU’s final TDs as “running it up” needlessly, and I must stand corrected when a blogger pointed out that they didn’t take a 3rd needless touchdown in the final minute so they could beat us by 42 instead of 35, but instead knealt down on the ball and ran the clock out. I suspect many of us played college football, hence our interest in this very special D-III website and our competetive spirits live on. But guys…D-III footbal is a game for young men who were young boys a few years ago. Chill out! I may add that when Hobart won something like 15 straight national D-II and D-III Lacrosse titles in the 80s & 90s, they packed up and went to D-I. Please MUC, before you do the same thing, give us a rematch!!!!

  19. Bartman,
    You have a funny way of getting to your point. Instead of starting out having a “discussion about the issues” in the beginning, which is what normally goes on here and has been for years before you arrived, you come out guns blazing, attacking people, then you act all offended when someone hits back. You’re probably going to do it with this post too.

    Give me a break. At least be a man and take responsibility for the attitude you’re bringing to the discussion. The victim complex, when you are just as much a party to the slandering and the arguing as the other side is, is lame.

    You do have a chip on your shoulder, you’ve been repeating the same comment I made for three weeks now, as though that overshadows every other thing I’ve written about Hobart … in the same paragraph, same article, same season or on the same website for the past eight years.

    You are still welcome to post here. You are welcome to dissent. You are welcome to make your arguments, well thought out or not. But before your last post, I was starting to believe you could not be reasoned with.

    I realize that in helping run a website where Dads like yourself can interactively follow their sons careers free of charge, I don’t get to choose what the discussions here entail, and how much logic and reason they involve.

    However, let me explain something to you one last time. I did not go to Mount Union; in fact, I went to a school who got the snot kicked out of them by MUC the week before. I learned to appreciate Mount Union by observing they way they do things, the same way I learned to appreciate St. John’s and Rowan and Mary Hardin-Baylor and UW-Whitewater, etc. When we shower people with praise around here it is earned … perhaps that’s why you crave it for Hobart so.

    Guys like you come along every year running their mouths about Mount Union this, Mount Union that, ruining the perception of their schools fans in the process. It’s happened with St. John Fisher fans and Ithaca fans, etc., the past couple years, and they mostly only made themselves look bad.

    Usually as their D3 horizons expand, they mellow out some.

    It’s a shame your son was a senior this season, as I think you would have enjoyed getting to know some of the good apples from Mount Union, just as the Mount Union fans would enjoy getting to know some of the good Hobart guys.

    From where I sit, I see arrogant fans arguing with each other, then slowly coming to realize that they’re not all that different. I don’t often get involved because I see it happen year after year on these boards. The end result is usually a good thing.

    There are arrogant fans from your school, and there are arrogant fans from their school. Hobart runs a class program and deserves respect, just as Mount Union runs a class program — regardless of whether your brief experience there reflects that or not — and deserves respect.

    The sooner you stop being one of the arrogant fans and start being one of the ones with an open mind, willing to consider what’s beyond Geneva, N.Y., the sooner you’ll find people on these boards already have intelligent discussions and they do have and show respect for each other. Not always, but it’s here.

    The community owes a great debt of gratitude to fans from Mount Union and Hobart, among other schools, for helping to foster this atmosphere and make Post Patterns and The Daily Dose comments what they are.

    We’re never going to over-police the boards or censor speech in a major way, but Pat and I have no problem letting the bad apples know that while they are welcome here, their attitudes are not. We have done this from the very beginning, and while it will cost us a few patrons, in the long run it probably keeps a bunch here too. I can’t speak for Pat, but I do not regret this.

    You might find this ironic, Bartman, but I can recall a Mount Union fan — I think his name was Doug — getting very upset over a column I wrote because it didn’t respect Mount Union enough. And here you are saying how fans fawn over the Purple Raiders.

    Kinda funny when I place myself in the middle of all that.

    Stop being condescending, lose the victim complex and use your knowledge to contribute positively to the discussion you say you crave. I know you can do it!

  20. Ketih: As always, well said.

    As a MUC guy, I’ve bitten my tongue over the last few days to avoid getting in a pissing match with someone that didn’t want to talk rationally. I’m all for discussing the differences between teams, schools and perceptions, but Bartman continually beating the same dead horse and not listening to any other points sounded like listening to my 9 year old argue with my wife……

    Those that have been around this site a while realize people like Bartman are a yearly occurence come playoff time that quiets a week or two after they’re bounced out. My hope is that this holds true again with Bartman or he grows up.

  21. D3Keith,
    Victim complex? Did you read all the posts or are you just shooting from the hip? If I have any “complex” at all it is a superiority complex. I truly feel sorry for the young men in that program (the majority that never play). Was my first post agressive…sure it was. This is because sometims it is good to slap people in the face first to wake them up from their hazy, lazy daze of MUC worship. But I never sunk to calling anybody names like “moron, poser, ignorant..etc” That came from all of your “good apples”. Check out R24Raiders 11/30 comment on Hobart. He actually said that Hobart played an “inspirational game”. If that is not condescending attitude I don’t know what is…we lost by 35. In my book this is not “inspirational”. Like I said before, Hobart was in it for awhile, then late in the 3rd lost control. There was no “inspiration” involved, just good football for awhile, and then not.

    I have only referenced your comment on this site ONCE. I don’t know where you come off saying that I keep repeating it. If you are a journalist like you say, don’t exaggerate the point that you are trying to make. Actually, it was an out and out lie. Shame on you, Mr. Integrety.

    I have laid out the facts for all to see re: MUC academic program and the way they run their football program. If you and others choose to look in the mirror and change your ways, that is great. If not, it is the kids that will be paying for it. Your choice.

    Keith, you told me that this site was not meant to be a yearbook club. Now it seems that you and others want it to be exactly that. A site where we can all pat each other on the back and say “great job”, “inspirational job”, “WOW, MUC is unbelievable”. We should all just have happy feelings and be nice. If that is what you want then stop calling yourself a journalist and complementing yourself on the great job you are doing.

    For me, you will all be happy to know that this is my last post. The horse is dead and I am done beating it. My second son is playing for Cornell, so I really have no use for all this ridiculous self congratulation.

    Hey, you know what, thinking back, I should have dissuaded my son from going to an Ivy League school and sent him to a sub-par educational facility to win a national championship and be part of something “wonderful”. NOT!!!.

    Later, folks, I’m on to DIAA ball.

  22. Sorry folks, one last post.

    More name calling? You must be one of the “good apples”. Congrats. If you folks would like I could just keep posting and not be one of those that lose and get bounced out. I’m positive you wouldn’t want that.

    On second thought, no, I’ve got bigger fish to fry at a superior educational institution. My guess is when I get on the Cornell blog, they will be more receptive to rational thought and analysis.

    Good luck to MUC this year. From what I saw at the Hobart game, they will need it.

  23. bartman,
    Were you that goofy Hobart guy that roamed the sidelines at the Hobart game wearing the red hat? Micheli first team academic All american. Kids know right up front that they probably won’t see the field until there Juniors. Yes, they come for the “ring” but their parents still foot the bill. I don’t think their parents are forking out that kind of cash just for football when their kids don’t even sniff the field for three years. I am so sick of hearing certain individuals talking about running up the score. Ok, if it makes you feel any better, we’ll only count the first half, Mount 14-Hobart 0. Great job! Only lost by 14 Hoo hoo! Tell all your friends Bartman! Nobody from Mount will be bitter. Now, in closing take your blogs and you bitterness and jealousy back to Geneva and ENJOY reading about the program that put DIII football in the national spotlight. I am done with you!

  24. Bartman,

    If you’re offended by someone saying that “Hobart’s play was inspirational”, then you’re beyond help and are just looking for a reason to be pissed.

    That statement was a compliment and true. Hobart came to Mount, played hard, took chances to win (fake punts) and earned our respect as a quality opponent. Nothing more. They didn’t have near the talent to actually win the game, but their effort and approach was “inspirational” to those of us that have followed Mount for 15+ years.

    I realize this was your first chance to see The Machine in person, but every year there is a playoff team or two that folds the tent as soon as Mount jumps on them. That’s how you get a 42-7 score at halftime like we had last season versus New Jersey. They gave up as soon as they realized Mount was better than them. And when we see a team like Ithaca last season or Hobart that played hard no matter the score, we find it refreshing and inspirational. If that offends you, stop following football.

    I’m not even sure how to draw any logic from your statement about the MUC roster size being “unfair”. No one comes to Mount without KNOWING and SEEING first hand that the roster is deep and it will take a ton of work (and some luck) to see the field. How is that unfair? No kid is sold a bill of goods about starting as a freshman to trick them into coming. It doesn’t work that way with LK.

    I know a former player personally that came to Mount to learn from Kehres because his career choice is teaching HS math and coaching football. Though he never saw the field, and knew he wouldn’t, he happily participated in 4 years of football as a back-up QB to learn from the best. Does he fit your description of a “kid being cheated”? He doesn’t in mine.

    When Mr. What’s His Name came out of high school he wanted very badly to play for D1 Bowling Green, but they didn’t even have room for him as a walk-on. So he started checking out other schools and loved the Mount campus, staff and atmosphere. He new that coming to Mount meant he would have an uphill battle to see the field, but he loved the school and wanted the challenge. After working hard and slowing climbing the depth chart, he’s become D3’s most productive RB ever.

    The more I read of your drivel, the more I wonder if you’re just really pissed off at life in general and is just your outlet right now. Or do you just have your panties in a wad over the fact that Hobart football isn’t as good as you thought? I’m guessing the former.

  25. HScoach,
    Saying Hobarts play was “inspirational” is the same as saying, “I can’t believe you guys are doing so well against us”. Maybe you could use a little sensitivity training or something.

    How do you know no kids are being sold a bill of goods? Let me educate you…It goes like this. “Now listen son, I am not going to say you are a sure starter, but anything can happen if you work hard enough, it is up to you but we would like to have you in the program”. Since you are a HSCoach you probably say the same thing to kids. You probably even kid yourself into thinking this is telling the truth.

    Let me educate you some more about all these kids that come to MUC to be part of something “wonderful”. For every one kid that has had a good experience such as the one you described there are many, many more that do not have a good experience. Here are the facts: MUC has a 94 man freshman roster but are graduating only 18 athletes. Where do you think these kids are going? This means that 75 kids who join the program end up leaving the program. I’m sure every one of those 75 kids had a great time while it lasted. Did you read this…75, 75, 75. Yeah, it’s a great program that is all aboout the kids. Give me a break. You people all remind me of the ostrich burying his head in the sand to get away from the truth.

    BTW, last time I wore panties I was in college, and I thought that girl was going to be really turned on by it……she wasn’t.

  26. I really wish you folks would stop blogging about me because I find it very hard to not respond to ignorance. Just take what I said, go home and think about it. Maybe you will even become one of those “good Apples” of which Keith likes to refer.

    Maybe you will even come away with a better understanding of who you really are.

  27. Your 13 seniors at Hobart used to be a class of 39, and that’s just the kids who made it to the week 2 roster, not how many came into camp. Trends suggest that would be more like 50.

    Attrition happens everywhere.

    You’re posting a lot for a guy who said he was done. If you’re done, go.

  28. If you want me to go then stop refering to me with idiotic posts.

    Being an Alumuni from somewhere, you can’t possibly be serious with your latest post. Even if your numbers are correct, and that is suspect, 50 is a long way from 94. If it was 50 then 50-13=37 kids lost to attrition.

    My elementary education tells me that 75 is more than double 37.

    Thanks for proving my point.

  29. This has become even worse than talking to my 9 year old son.

    Let’s take a quick look at “who knows what” about MUC.

    Poster #1 is a random Hobart fan that made 1 trip to Alliance and claims to know it all.

    Poster #2 is a local ex-high school O-line coach (now turned broadcaster) that has watched every MUC game in the last 15 years, has coached with and against numerous MUC graduates, has sent some of his HS players to Mount as well as other OAC and NCAC schools.

    Hmmm, I wonder which guy has a better idea of what goes on behind scenes at Mount Union?

    Take your holier than thou attitude and go elsewhere.

  30. My point was clear. I’m sorry you missed it. Wish I could make it bigger:

    “Attrition happens everywhere.”


  32. Bartman: There is no way I want to get in the middle of this, but in fairness to the site and the manner in which it is run, let me say this. A few years ago, after I learned about this site, I began to post comments from time to time and it was before Franklin was ever recognized very significantly in any discussions that had to do with “power programs”, etc. I was trying to make a case for our rivalry with Hanover, which dates back to, I think, the late 1800’s as one of the best DIII rivalries in the country, and I really believe that it is one of the best ones! That aside, I received one day a response from Keith that was very respectful and yet pointed out to me that I was posting with “rose colored glasses” and as a result losing some of what I was trying to convey. I was trying so hard to get Franklin “into the conversation” that I think I actually may have diminished the points I was trying to make. One of the very frustrating things about DIII sports in general is that, as great as it is (and we all know how incredibly special it is!), it gets very little sports press attention. I mean as good as Keith and Pat are on this subject, selection Sunday a few weeks ago got 5 minutes on ESPNNEWS, not even ESPN 2??? I mean, what’s with that? So, all of us are frustrated by that. My experience with this site is that it is a labor of love, not a gold mine for either Pat or Keith…..they could easily be doing something else. But they do this with an incredibly high sense of fairness and I have found they don’t love one team and not another, the fact is they have to try and cover over 200 of them during the season…I’d like to see the ESPN Gameday guys even come close to doing that! Like all of us, they do the best they know how and we who love DIII sports owe them a huge debt of gratitude….they are fair and they are rational and resonable, they really are. What we all have is an opportunity to enjoy college sports the way all of the other divisions say they have it and of course do not. Our players attend wonderful insititutions with limited atheletic budgets, supported by loyal alums who can still stand along the sidelines and watch a football game without a season ticket watching young men who will not be playing at the next level, play for the love of the game and be coached by people who don’t necesarily apsire to the next level, but see the value in really coaching and modeling real life skills and values while they’re at it, and in the process receive a wonderful education!! It doesn’t get much better than that! This is true at Hobart and it is true at Mount Union as well. As alums and fans of these great small colleges and universities, we may sometimes not realize just how “good” we’ve got it!!!

  33. R24aider,
    I would love to have a few with you (“your” lame attempt at insult aside) . I don’t know if you would be able to keep up though. I’m a fairly big guy and not susceptable to going down early. I’ll even bring my own. You wouldn’t mind Genesee, would you?

    I also am not the goofy one wearing the hat. An earlier post said that all teams have their arrogant fans. Well, you saw him wearing the hat. I know, “you’re” saying to yourselves: “That can’t be true. How is bartman not the arrogant one?” I swear, it’s not me. Hobart’s arrogant one is the goofy guy with the hat. I have had to watch him for three years now and am sooooo glad to be over with him.

    My son thought that he was ready for it to be over too. He has put 8 hard years into the game, just like every other senior player on all football teams in the nation. He said after the game that he thought he was ready for it to be over (he is pretty beat up after a full season. Has had two knee surgeries in his career and ices almost all joints, all the time) but now that it is over, he doesn’t want it to end. He and Dad (me), and Uncle, and Mom, and brothers, and Aunt all got pretty emotional.

    If you guys would like a compliment about the MUC program then here it comes: When my son and I were talking the week of the game, we had agreed that if his career ends with this loss, what better way to go out than losing to the best team in the nation? So, I am actually hoping for MUC to go all the way. Suprised, aren’t you?

    It takes courage to play this game. All other sports pale by comparison, except maybe Australian Rugby, and maybe not even that. It is not like other sports in which it takes courage to play only some of the time. In football, kids are lining up 50-70 times a game and possibly getting their bell rung or worse each time. What heart!!

    I keep telling you all to be more introspective. Well, I for one will try. I think that my anger over MUC slights (percieved?) at the game may have something to do with protecting the hard work and heart that goes with playing this game. Of course, an emotional son will do that to you too. When I percieved you folks as being condescending to Hobart, it felt like you were being condescending to my son. Obviously, you didn’t mean it that way, at the game or on the posts. But I hope that you folks can take this suggestion to heart, in the spirit in which it was intended, and be more sensitive to the other teams you trounce. That doesn’t mean that a person should stop rooting loudly and feircly for their team. In fact, I thought the Hobart fan’s did a great job at this, if I do say so myself.

    So, in the spirit of the holiday’s and also to honor those young men that play this game of games: I apologize for being condescending and arrogant to you. I still think I’m correct, mind you, but I understand your fierce loyalty to your sons and Alma Mater, and team.

    Go MUC….I mean it this time

  34. Wow……been out of town for a few days, and it’s taken me 30 minutes of reading just to catch up (sort of)…. much anger, ….discussion of quality of education and grammer lessons!!!! Really a change from past years…. Looking forward to the UMHB-W&J game this weekend. W&J has a great team and they are BIG….but the CRU played as good of a game last week against Wesley that I’ve seen them play since last year. They are not WELL yet…but they are getting there. I expect them to win by 10…….

  35. Bartman,

    Good post. If you’d have started this way, we could have saved lot of time and frustration on all sides.

  36. I liked the Hobart fan with the hat and if he’s gone next year, I’ll miss his spirit. He’s a devoted and harmless fan who has fun. Fun is what has seemingly been mssing on this blog lately.

    I dare say that while MUC blew the game wide open in the late 3rd quarter and while it was somewaht close til then, in reality MUC was never seriously threatened by my team. However, there were some potential (before you have a stroke MUC fan, I said POTENTIAL) areas of weakness. Hobart did not have much of a running game in the regular season yet had some success on the ground with a 2nd string RB. Cortland’s O-Line is as big, if not bigger than Hobart’s so perhaps the gound game is where to attack MUC to attempt to control the ball & keep it away from their seemingly unstoppable offense. Like Hobart found out, if the defense is on the field too long Kmic & Co will wear you down. Also, Hobart was able to catch MU off guard a few times on fake punts so special teams may be key. Alliance is a tough place to play and MUC is the #1 team in D-III w/o a doubt so Cortland must bring their A game. Remember Red Dragons, MUC can be beat and you’re the best the East has. Go get em!!!!

  37. Wow. I really enjoy the significant loyalty that everyone has for their schools. I have to admit that I am a little nervous typing this as it might be under a microscope for grammer or even worse spell check. I am a Mount alumni who has lived in Upstate NY for almost seventeen years. I will always cheer for my team in Alliance, Ohio but I also cheer for the teams from my hometown area in NW Pennsylvania (Grove City and Allegheny). While living in Upstate New York I have had the pleasure to watch great football in the Liberty League, The New Jersey Athletic Conference, Empire 8, Eastern College Athletic Conference, The Patriot League (Division 1A ), and the Middle Atlantic Conferences. Great football, great competition, student athletes, great fan support, community support, and family friendly (my kids love going to the games with me). Do I dare show my enthusiasm about this great playoff format for a National Champion!
    I enjoy everyones comments and respect every football opinion given.
    grizzfanbill said it well “Our players attend wonderful insititutions with limited atheletic budgets, supported by loyal alums who can still stand along the sidelines and watch a football game without a season ticket watching young men who will not be playing at the next level, play for the love of the game and be coached by people who don’t necesarily apsire to the next level, but see the value in really coaching and modeling real life skills and values while they’re at it, and in the process receive a wonderful education!! It doesn’t get much better than that! This is true at Hobart and it is true at Mount Union as well. As alums and fans of these great small colleges and universities, we may sometimes not realize just how “good” we’ve got it!!!

    I truly believe that a quality education can be obtained at many colleges including Mount Union and Hobart. The real testament will be…what will that student athlete and or student do with their education. I utilized my Mount Union degree to become a CEO of a company in Upstate New York. I consider my education to be just as good if not better than a Hobart, Hartwick, Hamilton, Colgate, Ithaca, Allegheny, or any other. This past weekend I won a friendly wager with my friend who graduated from Hobart. I would put education a Mount against his anyday. I was not even insulted when he asked me where Mount Union was. We listened to the game on the Mount Union web page radio broadcast, and if we were thinking we would of had a six pack of Genesse Beer. I did win a dollar on the game. This week I have another dollar bet with my daughters Physical Education teacher who graduated from Cortland.
    I would suggest that Hobart and William Smith College contact Mount Union to play a home and away series in the future. St. John Fisher has played Mount in the playoffs in the past and the two schools arranged a home and away for 2008 and 2009. What a great opportunity for programs to improve and what a great way to play the best. I am willing to bet a Genesse Cream Ale that Mount would accept a home and away.
    Bartman good final post. Congrats to your son on a successful college career. Wow did that Justin Hager had a hell of a game. Reminded me of a former Ohio Athletic Conference player from John Carroll (London Fletcher)
    Good luck to the remaining teams and the athletes. Best of luck to the athletes who have finished their season and continue with their studies.
    Happy Holidays and Go Purple Raiders

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