The NCAA released its second 2009 regional rankings today.
Teams are listed with their regional record first, followed by their overall record. For more information about the playoff format and how participants are determined, check out our FAQ.
EAST REGION
1. Alfred 7-0 7-0
2. Albright 7-0 8-0
3. Delaware Valley 6-1 7-1
4. Kean 7-1 7-1
5. Springfield 7-1 7-1
6. Lebanon Valley 7-1 7-1
7. Montclair State 7-1 7-1
8. Curry 7-1 7-2
9. Maine Maritime 7-1 7-1
10. Union 6-1 6-2
NORTH REGION
1. Mount Union 7-0 8-0
2. Wittenberg 6-0 8-0
3. Mount St. Joseph 8-0 8-0
4. Case Western Reserve 7-0 8-0
5. Illinois Wesleyan 7-1 7-1
6. Wabash 6-1 7-1
7. Wheaton (Ill.) 7-1 7-1
8. Trine 7-1 7-1
9. Otterbein 7-1 7-1
10. Allegheny 7-1 7-1
SOUTH REGION
1. Wesley 5-0 8-0
2. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0
3. Thomas More 8-0 8-0
4. Huntingdon 4-0 7-1
5. Mississippi College 6-1 6-2
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-1 7-1
7. Centre 7-1 7-1
8. Dickinson 7-1 7-1
9. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 7-1
10. DePauw 6-1 6-1
WEST REGION
1. St. John’s 8-0 8-0
2. UW-Whitewater 6-0 8-0
3. Linfield 7-0 8-0
4. Central 9-0 9-0
5. Monmouth 9-0 9-0
6. St. Thomas 7-1 7-1
7. Coe 7-1 7-1
8. Cal Lutheran 6-1 6-1
9. Redlands 6-1 6-1
10. St. Norbert 8-1 8-1
EAST REGION
For discussion sake, let’s assume the highest ranked team from each conference earns that AQ.
1. Alfred 7-0 7-0 Pool A E8 (at Ithaca, Utica)
2. Albright 7-0 8-0 Pool A MAC (at Del Valley, Leb Valley)
3. Delaware Valley 6-1 7-1 Pool C MAC (Albright, at Widener)
4. Kean 7-1 7-1 Pool A NJAC (at WPU, at Montclair St)
5. Springfield 7-1 7-1 Pool C E8 (SJF; open)
6. Lebanon Valley 7-1 7-1 Pool C MAC (Lycoming, at Albright)
7. Montclair State 7-1 7-1 Pool C NJAC (at Rowan, at Kean)
8. Curry 7-1 7-2 Pool A/C NEFC Boyd (Mass-Dartmouth, NEFC Championships)
9. Maine Maritime 7-1 7-1 Pool A/C NEFC Bogan (at Fitchburg St, NEFC Championships)
10. Union 6-1 6-2 Pool A LL (at Merchant Marine, Susquehanna)
As Pat Coleman said, there is lots of backloading on some of the schedules in strong conferences. The MAC and the NJAC has some their best games over the next 2 weekends. Lots of 2-loss teams out there looking in on Pool C!
NORTH REGION
1. Mount Union 7-0 8-0 Pool A/C OAC (North Region #9 Otterbein, Marietta)
2. Wittenberg 6-0 8-0 Pool A/C NCAC (North Region #10 Allegheny, Wooster)
3. Mount St. Joseph 8-0 8-0 Pool A HCAC ( Defiance, South #2 Thomas More)
4. Case Western Reserve 7-0 8-0 Pool B UAA (at Carnegie-Mellon, WUSTL)
5. Illinois Wesleyan 7-1 7-1 Pool A/C CCIW (North Region #7 Wheaton, at North Park)
6. Wabash 6-1 7-1 NCAC Pool C/A (Hiram, at South Region #10 Depauw)
7. Wheaton (Ill.) 7-1 7-1 CCIW Pool C/A (at North Region #5 IWU, Carthage)
8. Trine 7-1 7-1 MIAA Pool A/C (Adrian, Ky Christian)
9. Otterbein 7-1 7-1 OAC Pool C/A (at North Region #1 MUC, JCU)
10. Allegheny 7-1 7-1 NCAC Pool C/A (at North Region #2 Wittenberg, at Ohio Wesleyan)
Only MSJ has clinched a Pool A bid in the North Region.
SOUTH REGION
1. Wesley 5-0 8-0 Pool B
2. Hampden-Sydney 8-0 8-0 ODAC Pool A/C (Salisbury, at Randolph Macon)
3. Thomas More 8-0 8-0 Pres AC Clinched Pool A (Clinched Geneva, at North Region #3 MSJ)
4. Huntingdon 4-0 7-1 Pool B (at Bimringham Southern, at South Alabama)
5. Mississippi College 6-1 6-2 Pool A/C (at Sul Ross State, Texas Lutheran)
6. Mary Hardin-Baylor 5-1 7-1 ASC Pool C/A (at Howard Payne, Sul Ross State)
7. Centre 7-1 7-1 SCAC Pool A/C (at Trinity TX, open date)
8. Dickinson 7-1 7-1 CC Pool C/A (Juniata, Ursinus) (Dickinson has loss to JHU which plays F&M).
9. Washington and Jefferson 7-1 7-1 Pres AC Pool C (at Bethany, Waynesburg)
10. DePauw 6-1 6-1 SCAC (Austin College, #6 North Region Wabash)
In the ODAC, RMC must beat Bridgewater on Saturday to play for ODAC title vs H-SC.
In the CC, three-way tie thru 9 weeks in Cc between Dickinson, F&M and JHU.
In the SCAC, complex tie-breaker involving DePauw, Centre and Millsaps. Millsaps needs the most help.
In the ASC, MissCollege magic number over UMHB is one.
I drove over from the Twin Cities to see the UW-W/UW-SP game last Saturday. UW-Whiterwater’s run defense is quite impressive this year. A ton of speed. The only potential vulnerability is the deep pass – but what team doesn’t have trouble in this area of their defensive game. There were a few plays on Saturday where UW-SP helped out with dropped passes to open wide receivers.
I think if UW-W takes care of business the next two weeks things will sort themselves out in the West Regional Rankings. Saint John’s, while very good (despite some tough injuries), has had a series of close games and the two games against UW-RF and UW-EC were very close. I would think this would factor in the decision making of the coaches making up the seeds for the West’s rankings over the next two weeks. In addition, SJU’s game against Carleton will not help with the opponent’s winning percentage, one of the criteria used by the coaching committee who makes up the regional seeds.
WEST REGION
1. St. John’s 8-0 8-0 MIAC Pool A/C (at Augsburg, Carleton)
2. UW-Whitewater 6-0 8-0 WIAC Pool A/C (UW-O, at UW-L)
3. Linfield 7-0 8-0 NWC Pool A/C (open date, Pac Lutheran)
4. Central 9-0 9-0 IIAC Pool A/C (at Wartburg, open date)
5. Monmouth 9-0 9-0 NWC Clinched Pool A
6. St. Thomas 7-1 7-1 MIAC Pool C/A (at Bethel, Northwestern MN)
7. Coe 7-1 7-1 IIAC Pool C/A (at Buena Vista, Cornell)
8. Cal Lutheran 6-1 6-1 SCIAC Pool A/C (at LaVerne, Redlands)
9. Redlands 6-1 6-1 SCIAC Pool C/A (at Chapman, at Cal Lutheran)
10. St. Norbert 8-1 8-1 MWC Pool C ( at Illinois College)
The curious thing for me will be the regional pecking order in regards to the semi-finals. I expect to see Mount going East, Whitewater going to the North and SJU (or Linfield) tops the West and Wesley in the South.
But who is the #1 seed overall? I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a serious discussion on the NCAA committee of pairing Mount vs Whitewater in the Semi’s to avoid a 5th Stagg match-up. Does SJU have enough to pull the #1 overall seed thereby making UWW/MUC the #2/#3 match-up?
I SIGNED in I looked around I SIGNED out I C BOMBERS have 2 weeks I have many hopes and many doubts…GO BOMBERS I’ll never leave ya!!
HScoach,
That’s a great point about whether the NCAA committee would try to pair MUC and UWW prior to the Stagg Bowl. I don’t know if they would do it, but of all the years to try, this seems like a good one if SJU does, in fact, stay atop the West rankings. That could make the No. 1 brackets play out like:
(1st) West St. John’s
(4th) South Wesley
(3rd) North UW-W
(2nd) East Mount Union
I could see (and understand) it happening, though I don’t know if there’s something in the NCAA criteria/standards that would prevent it.
In the Regional Rankings, the only two Pool A conferences that do not have a member listed are the NATHC and the USASouth.
I really wonder if one of the 6 Pool C bids goes to someone not listed.
From my first glance this afternoon … we saw the movement we anticipated on the podcast in the West with Whitewater.
As far as the question above, the proper way for the committee to pair the brackets is after they’ve determined who the number 1 seeds are, those four teams are ranked. Strongest is then set up to face weakest and 2 vs. 3 in the semis.
So if UW-W was a 2 seed, they wouldn’t influence at all whether they face the North … however strong the 1 seed is would determine it. … What you have above Ryan is possible.
Who, North Central? I saw they weren’t ranked.
Bethel might have a shot if they beat STU this weekend, but I don’t think it looks good for Capital or ONU. I haven’t really crunched the numbers yet, just speculating off top.
Although we all know anything is possible with the NCAA, would it seem right to you guys to make St. John’s the #1 seed to avoid a MUC/UWW Stagg?
It seems like if they are trying to avoid a specific matchup of two teams in the Stagg Bowl, then they are already conceding that those teams must be the real #1 and #2 seeds (nationwide).
If St. John’s is the best team in the country then they have every opportunity to make it to the Stagg anyway, right?
If D3 does it’s best to make itself a “Determine the winner on the field” environment, then manipulating the number #1 overall seed to avoid a specific matchup would seem to go against that very value. I know there are travel considerations that are taken into account. Those are unfortunate and cost driven. It seems like adding yet another off the field factor to the decision making process would just take away from the tournament, not add to it.
The best way to prevent a UWW/MUC Stagg is for someone else to actually beat them on the field. Until then, I think an undefeated MUC and UWW should be a no-brain #1 and #2.
I’ve always thought that the playoffs were the route to determining the fair and legitimite national champion — not the fair and legitimite No. 2 team, or No. 3, etc. By that rationale, any bracket struture should produce the playoff system’s goal, which is the crowning the best of D3.
In the current regional rankings, yeah, an early MUC/UWW could seem “right,” because UWW isn’t its region No. 1 team, so thus wouldn’t stake a claim to the spot of No. 1 seed in the country, either.
In the eyes of the NCAA criteria, St. John’s could have a very ligitimite claim to the overall No. 1 seed, making a MUC/UWW rematch likely before the Stagg.
Tipps,
I’m not sure if this was what you were trying to say or not, but I had the same thoughts as UWWRocks. If a 5th Stagg matchup is prevented by an early meeting instead of someone beating MUC or UWW, then it’s not quite as authentic.
I don’t think the committee should predetermine either way whether they want them to meet early or not meet early. They should set the fairest playoff bracket with respect to 2009 and its results. If the two best teams end up being Whitewater and Mount Union again, who are we to articifically prevent it? (root against, fine …)
I re-read … I get what you guys are saying now about St. John’s.
Look, if SJU deserves an overall No. 1, that’s great. Then we throw them in the bucket with the other three No. 1s.
If one of those teams is UWW in the “north,” then by the looks of the latest regional rankings, SJU would grade out ahead of them.
So then the question is, is it MUC 1/Wesley 4 and SJU 2/UWW 3, or SJU 1/MUC 2 or 3, UWW 2 or 3.
I love that all of this could be moot in two weeks 🙂
If Whitewater and Mount Union are both undefeated at year end, i don’t see any way that the NCAA can justify not making them the #1 overall and #2 overall seeds. Both their runs are unprecedented and there is nothing that has happened this season to lead me to believe these aren’t (again) the two best teams in the nation.
If St. Johns or Linfield feels strongly about wanting homefield in the playoffs, they should schedule Whitewater during the REGULAR season so they can have a head to head win for seeding purposes.
LF and SJU both have great programs, and i respect them a great deal, but i’m all about producing the BEST national championship possible. Mount Union is the defending champ, consensus #1 ranked team in the polls, and undefeated. I think making WW the #2 ranked (one seed) and giving the #3 seed (LF or SJU) and opportunity for them to knock off WW makes the most sense.
The thing really hurting the Warhawks right now, is according to the NCAA regional rankings, the two wins against Dickinson State and Midland Lutheran don’t count. DSU is 7-2 this season and MLU is 5-4. Without those two teams, Whitewater only gets penalized for the awful season Puget Sound is having.
Overall, Whitewater opponents are 42-39 so far this season, and SJU’s opponents are 40-40 so far. All remaining games are conference games, so those spreads shouldn’t change.
If you take off DSU and MLU, Whitewater’s opponents records are 30-33
Finally, for comparison’s sake, Mount Union’s opponents are 37-42 (including yet to be played games)
Keith,
Based on your follow-up post, I think you get where I was coming from. I was disagreeing with UWWRocks, but also not really disagreeing with him. (If that makes any sense whatsoever.) St. John’s right now is ranked atop probably the toughest region in the country, so that’s what I was basing things off of giving them the No. 1 seed. No way around that at the moment, though things might change in these final two weeks with the kinds of teams the Johnnies play. Then that could reset this discussion entirely.
I do understand that folks in the NCAA, and perhaps even around here, may be looking for an excuse not to wind up with another MUC/UWW title game. I’m not endorsing that view; I just understand it. I’ve had those teams Nos. 1 and 2 on my ballot all year, and I still think those are the ones that deserve to be at the Stagg Bowl.
But I am also realistic looking at seasons like 2007 when some would argue that the top two teams in the country played each other in the semis — not at Salem. I know that the Stagg isn’t always going to be Nos. 1 and 2, and I guess I’m OK with that fact as long as it’s the best of the best that’s crowned in the end.
Could Thomas More leap frog Wesley with a win over unbeaten MTSJ? Wesley still has a non-D3 game on the schedule and only has 5 wins against in-region opponents. Thomas More’s SOS will go up considerably if MTSJ is 9-0 when they play in week 11.
SOS must be hurting UWW because they have two blowout wins agains common opponents that played SJU tough. I’m surprised they aren’t #1 in the West already, but they probably won’t end up there anyway. I don’t think there is any way SJU gets the #1 overall over an unbeaten MUC. Especially when they will improve their own SOS with a game against Otterbein.
I’d be okay with SJU being the top seed in the West, UWW being the top seed in the North (MUC in the East), with UWW traveling to SJU for the national-semifinal. I doubt a road game is going to derail UWW if they are indeed a top-2 team.
I think that scenario would satisfy most fans and get the desired national title matchup. Either SJU or UWW would absolutely belong, and i think both of those two teams would rather face MUC for the title .
Oddly enough, each team probably wants a different opponent. UWW has crushed everyone but MUC the past 5 years and obviously want to knock the king (MUC) off the mountain. MUC is probably sick of UWW, posting a 3-1 Stagg record and 5-1 overall record this decade, and probably would like an opportunity to avenge their earlier Stagg loss to SJU.
UWW has become a major nemesis for SJU the past 5 years, beating the Johnnies 3 times, though i think most teams would agree that wins against Mount Union is currently the gold standard in D3.
Regardless, i think most people want to see UWW-MUC or MUC-SJU in the final, and everyone would be best served if they final isn’t UWW-SJU
My post really expressed two opinions. The first stronger than the second. I think most people would NOT agree with artificially ranking St. John’s #1 overall just to prevent another possible UWW/MUC Stagg. (Ryan commented he understands it, but doesn’t necessarily agree with it. Truthfully, I wouldn’t even understand it.)
Now if St John’s is legitimately ranked ahead of Mount or UWW, then that’s altogether different. I would definitely disagree with the ranking based on the many reasons listed above. That raises all those regional ranking questions. Judgement? Arbitrary Criteria?
Not a big fan of the “strength of schedule” thing. It’s not even real in D3. There’s too big of a variation is strength between the conferences. If UWW played St. Norberts this year, they would have probably won by 35 points or more based on history. Yet, they have a GREAT record and would have added to the UWW “strength of schedule” even though they would have been one of the weaker teams on the schedule.
Well I’m with you in that the committee shouldn’t force MUC and UWW to opposite sides of the bracket. If that happens, fine. If it doesn’t, also fine. The committee should be in the business of putting teams where they belong, not necessarily trying to influence how the playoffs turn out.
I can see the counter argument to this, and that’s “well why do we move Mount Union to the east, then?” … In that case, because the brackets aren’t required to be deliniated by region, and because most people agree that brackets built around four No. 1 seeds are more fair than brackets unbalanced by geography. I think that’s apples and oranges.
As far as strength of schedule, it’s very real. Maybe more for the teams in 8-team conferences than 10-team conferences, but when UW-W went out and scheduled UMHB in the regular season and won those games, and benefited from that when it came to playoff seeding, they were deserving … and I didn’t hear SOS complaints then.
I would strongly disagree with that 🙂
UWW has proven over and over that they will play anyone, anywhere. Unfortunately, many teams are too “chicken” to play us sometimes, and we are left with undesirable matchups (where we win 58-3), or where we play a WIAC team for a second time in one season.
We’ve scheduled St. Johns, Mount Union, Mary Hardin Baylor six times in the past 7 seasons I believe. This year, two of our non conference wins are against very solid teams (7-2, 5-4) but they don’t count because the wins are “out of region”. I have no problem with SOS being used to determine regional rankings, but i believe our wins of MHB in past years didn’t even count because they were “out of region”.
Regardless, SJU-UWW should both commit to a year in year out OOC game. A 1 loss team could still run the table, and get into the playoffs by winning their conference. The winner, if they would run the table, would be almost an annual number one seed in their conference.
On a side note, since i’m feeling honest, i want to see UWW make as many NC games as possible, but i do think our recent rise is largely driven by the enormous resources the UWW Athletic Department has. Its no secret that our National Championships in Football, Volleyball, and Baseball, as well as top finishes in Mens and Womens Basketball, Gymnastics, and Track can be attributed to some of the best, if not the best facilities in NCAA Div III.
There could be a hiccup here or there, but given the facilities UWW has, the recruiting base (Milw, Madison, Rockford/Janesville/Beloit), the football history and TV exposure, the larg
UWW has proven over and over that they will play anyone, anywhere. Unfortunately, many teams are too “chicken” to play us sometimes, and we are left with undesirable matchups (where we win 58-3), or where we play a WIAC team for a second time in one season.
We’ve scheduled St. Johns, Mount Union, Mary Hardin Baylor six times in the past 7 seasons I believe. This year, two of our non conference wins are against very solid teams (7-2, 5-4) but they don’t count because the wins are “out of region”. I have no problem with SOS being used to determine regional rankings, but i believe our wins of MHB in past years didn’t even count because they were “out of region”.
Regardless, SJU-UWW should both commit to a year in year out OOC game. A 1 loss team could still run the table, and get into the playoffs by winning their conference. The winner, if they would run the table, would be almost an annual number one seed in their conference.
On a side note, since i’m feeling honest, i want to see UWW make as many NC games as possible, but i do think our recent rise is largely driven by the enormous resources the UWW Athletic Department has. Its no secret that our National Championships in Football, Volleyball, and Baseball, as well as top finishes in Mens and Womens Basketball, Gymnastics, and Track can be attributed to some of the best, if not the best facilities in NCAA Div III.
There could be a hiccup here or there, but given the facilities UWW has, the recruiting base (Milw, Madison, Rockford/Janesville/Beloit), the football histoery and TV exposure, the largest stadium in Div III, i see no reason why this current run won’t continue into the forseeable future.
We won’t reach the NC game year after year indefinitely, but the gap in talent between UWW and the rest of the WIAC right now is absurd. The hiccup against UWSP last year aside (17-16 mind you), UWW is on its way to being 34-1 in the past 5 years in the WIAC.
I’m enjoying the success of UWW as a proud alumnus, but i don’t think that the advantages that UWW has over other schools are entirely fair either
I completely agree with you regarding the committee “not forcing” MUC and UWW either together or apart. Rank the teams as fairly and accurately and let the chips fall where they may.
It’s possible I don’t understand the SOS criteria. Let’s say TEAM A plays an identical schedule as TEAM B, except for one game. TEAM A plays Mount Union, UMHB, and UWW. Their combined record is 29-1. TEAM B plays Case Western Reserve. St. Norbert, and Monmouth. Their combined record is 30-0. Which team would be seen as having a better STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE?
Not true. There’s an example on the FAQ page uses a not-so-similar scenario that says it is:
Some examples: 1. Trinity (Texas) is scheduled to play the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater in a regular season game in Ireland. Is this a regional game?
Answer: Yes. It doesn’t matter where the game is played, only where the schools are from. Texas and Wisconsin are both in Region 4.
http://www.d3football.com/faq.php?answer&category=Playoffs&id=38
OOPS! In my mythical example above, I meant “three games”, not one game.
WarhawkBadger, I agree with you regarding the UWW facilities being amazing. Although it may take awhile for WIAC teams to catch up, I believe it’s possible. In the late 50’s and early 60’s UWW, then WSUW, were the innovators and leaders in football recruiting. Others followed suit and improved their program. In 1970, UWW opened Warhawk Stadium (now Perkins Stadium). Since then, most of the WIAC schools followed suit and have upgraded their facilities and many have developed very solid football programs. UWW has kept building on their tradition and have strived for excellence in all their facilities and in all sports.
I agree it’s not all about having tons of money. Over the years the facilities and the success of the various teams has been built on the love, passion, sweat, dedication, and perseverance of many people. UWW won’t be caught without the same attributes at another program. But it can happen and it probably will.
1) If it were that close, the SOS criteria would probably not be the deciding factor on who is seeded higher. There are several criteria.
2) SOS goes one level deeper than you’re looking at it. It takes into account the OWP, opponents’ winning percentage, but it also takes into account who the teams you play have played. (OOWP) So if you play a team that happens to have an off year because it’s getting beat by a bunch of teams who are having really good years, then you get credit for that.
In other words, you’re probably still better off playing 6-4 Hardin-Simmons than 9-1 St. Norbert if the ASC and the non-con teams the Cowboys scheduled all turn out to be really good.
Just noticed that too. Was gonna say!
I understand what you’re getting at; but if that were the final, someone would have had to beat Mount Union straight up … we’re all best served when the best teams play each other on the field. Everyone prefers that Nos. 1 and 2 meet in the Stagg Bowl, but if someone beats Mount Union before Salem, then everyone just assumes MUC wasn’t No. 1 or 2.
(unless of course they lose to UWW 14-13 and then UWW beats SJU 40-7, but that’s a whole ‘nother argument)
D3 Keith,
Your reference to St. Norbert and UMHB is exactly what I was trying to find out. That does make me feel a ton better about the SOS thing. (Me feeling better is what it’s all about lol). And for the record, I’m really not trying to bash St. Norbert with these examples! They do a nice job with their football program. It just feels like there are different levels of D3, maybe even more so than D1, I’m not sure. Maybe it’s about the same.
I not sure SJU is better than UWW, probably not, but I think the NCAA should rank teams based on the the current year, not what happened in the past two or three years. So, if UWW SOS is lower than SJU, then I guess SJU, or any team for that matter, should be ranked ahead. It would be weird to think the NCAA doesn’t want a UWW v. MUC Stagg Bowl, it should be economics-they bring fans. I am sure the advertising dollars are already set-doesn’t matter who is playing in the game.
Not that it means anything, and I understand the example was qualified as “mythical”, but Case, Monmouth, and St. Norbert could never be a combined 30-0. Just sayin’….
The fact is, regardless of what the NCAA decides, UWW has been the most dominant team in the West for 5 years and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change…SOS aside. The only affect a seed has on them at this point is keeping them from playing at home every game and that didn’t make any difference last year. MUC will be the overall #1 and unless they (NCAA) completely lose their minds and seed UWW as the #4 overall, they won’t play each other until the Stagg Bowl. Even if they don’t move UWW to the North, and they do wind up with the West #2 seed, the West #1 will not be the #4 overall so the matchup still won’t happen until Salem.
If the season ended today, based on the current rankings, I would put the following Teams as the Bracket #1 seeds in this order:
1: UWW – (“North” region)
2: MUC – (“East” region)
3: SJU – (“West” Region)
4: Wesley – (“South” Region)
This would match UWW vs. Wesley and MUC vs. SJU in the Semis if all played out as ranked. Still the chance for a UWW vs. MUC Stagg and a great Head to Head of Gags and Kehres again in the Semis.
Been there done, no thanks Kirasdad. 🙂
Been there, done that, no thanks Kirasdad 🙂
So worried about that possibilty, I couldn’t get the sentence right.
We could go:
1: SJU
2: UWW
3: MUC
4: Wesley
That would make the rest of DIII happy to prevent another ALL PURPLE Stagg Bowl.
Or, someone else could just Beat UWW or MUC in the playoffs prior to the Semis!
MUC and U-WW are the most storied D-3 programs over the past decade and given their continued dominance in 2009, probably deserving of the #1 & 2 seeds overall. SJU is seriously banged up and struggling offensively. Given the relative strengths/weaknesses of each region and NCAA’s desire to manage tournament travel costs, it seems logical that the selection committee may once again move U-WW to the North and MUC to the East. Provided they remain undefeated, that leaves SJU as the likely #1 seed in the West and Wesley #1 in the South. Hypothetical regional seedings are:
#1 – East (MUC)
#2 – North (U-WW)
#3 – West (SJU)
#4 – South (Wesley)
Should they make it through the first two rounds, an U-WW vs. SJU semi-final matchup has the added advantage of being easily within the NCAA’s 500 “bus to the ballgame” radius. Please say it ain’t so, another cold, miserable trip to Whitewater in early December… Oh well, beats the heck out of waiting for the BCS selection committee to decide who will play for the mythical Division I National Championship on some Tuesday night in mid-January!
I’d hate the rankings discussion to pass by without a little bit of a more wide ranging discussion. Are their any teams that may be ranked, say in the top three, in any region that you could see being upset in the last two weeks to change the look of the first round?
This thread has given me a real appreciation for SJU and their classy fans. As a fan (at the Division 1 level) who hates just about every one of the dominant teams (Florida, tOSU, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, Miami, VTech), i appreciate the people who aren’t immediately “piling on” to get over the hump versus UWW or MUC.
Looking forward to another exciting NCAA Div III playoff where we can leave it all on the field. If only Div I had a 32 team playoff, we wouldn’t be left wondering which of the SEVEN undefeated teams in Div 1 deserve to be in the MNC
If the committee wanted to bring some “fan preference”into the final decision, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a regional pairing of:
West (SJU) vs. South (Wesley)
North (UWW) vs. East (MUC)
I don’t doubt UWW and MUC “should” be the top two seeds, but does anyone really want to see that again in Salem? I’m a Mount guy and I don’t want to see that. If those two are going to play, I’d rather see it in the Semi’s. As long as it’s in Alliance!
Or even better, how about UWW doesn’t accept their invitation and just save the rest of the nation the horror of another all purple Stagg? Who’s with me?
I’ve heard enough. UW-Whitewater is a better team than St. John’s; it has proven so in the last four years, in which the programs have met and UW-Whitewater has swept the series.
UW-Whitewater should be ranked first in their region for this reason. The Warhawks have been recieving number one (nationally) votes since midway through their conference play.
But nevermind that, take this in consideration: In D3 football, teams generally keep their rankings until otherwise can be proven. Mt. Union only lost it’s #1 national ranking when another team (only UW-Whitewater in 07) could prove it was better. At what point, in this season or previous ones, has St. John’s proven that they can compete with UW-Whitewater?
If I recall, there might’ve been a game 2 or three years ago that was CLOSE between the J’s and the H’s. Other than this solitary instance, St. John’s has been thoroughly outplayed.
One more piece of information… While I take into account the fact that this game took place early in the year… lets not forgot that the Johnies very easily could’ve (or in the minds of some, should’ve) suffered their first loss of the year to a UW-River falls team that is at the bottom of the WIAC totem.
UW-Whitewater is the best team in their region, hands down. I won’t make any other claims further than this point, because who knows what the future holds. I don’t care what kind of national championship “people” want to see.
UWW has leveled a high degree of efficiency in Division III football the past 3 seasons and has staked claim to one national championship of their own. I think an appearance by either UWW or MTU on the other’s playing surface in the national semi-finals would create great attention, more attention than if the two played each other in the national championship game.
It’s about time MTU ventures out on a little road-trip of their own.
Host “Janesville Flash” and his Spotted Cow are worth the trip alone.
DustySJU,
Only way I see that is if they rank them:
1. SJU
2. UWW
3. MUC/MTU/MUU/UMU
4. Wesley
Though, I can’t see SJU being ranked over UWW or MUC based on this years record, abilities.
I understand the arguments that call for the committee to look at this year as a separate entity. As wrong as it would be for the committee to intentionally seed the teams to avoid a MUC/UWW Stagg Bowl (in my opinion), it would also be wrong to automatically give them the top two seeds because of past performances (in my opinion).
It seems like a good place to start would be to decide on the four #1 seeds (as Keith mentioned). Then locate them and seed them based on who the committee feels are the best football teams (especially if all are undefeated). Obviously, one of the barometers would be SOS. But comparative performances, dominance shown, etc. should be considered as well.
One measuring stick I don’t know how I feel about is health. Someone mentioned that St. John’s is banged up. I would hate to see them penalized for that. I know that goes against my overall philosophy of “just pick the best darn teams”. But if a team truly accomplishes enough to earn the a seed (whatever it might be), I would hate to see that taken away from them due to injury.
OWP is not the end all when the teams competing for a certain seeding have a different number of non-conference games. With the OAC having 10 teams, Mount only gets one opportunity to play out of conference. Therefore their ability to improve significantly on the OPW is very limited.
When is the last time Mount played a road playoff game? It’s probably been quite awhile and deservedly so. And that shows that the committee HAS to be taking more than OWP or SOS into consideration. That’s why I would be surprised if St. John’s were ranked ahead of either MUC or UWW. When someone comes up with a team more special than MUC or UWW, then they can legitimately ranked ahead of them. Or if someone beats one of them, genuine consideration can be given to changing the pecking order. But until then, I would have a hard time buying someone being ranked ahead of them “out of nowhere”.