Alright, well, I’ve had the bracket in my hands for almost five hours so I’ve probably come to grips with it, but you guys haven’t had it nearly as long so it’s time to let out those pent-up frustrations.
I would really like to get to the bottom of the Millsaps mileage issue. The folks on the committee told me that the number they got was higher than 500 miles, so I’d like to know what it takes to standardize these distances. There’s a Web site the NCAA mandates schools to use to determine whether a game is in-region and that is indeed the site I used. Why they got different numbers, neither of us is sure.
In the end, it just means we have a regional semifinal one week early.
Looking forward to the potential matchup of Rowan and Wilkes in the second round. That should be a great game. Rowan is just getting its offense in gear and I’m not sure that Hobart, which struggled with William Paterson and others, can keep up. Wilkes is strong on defense as well. I haven’t seen the field since September, so I wonder what it looks like now.
Springfield, as I mentioned on the air, is in shape to play two games on turf, which bodes well for their offense. They need a lower seed to advance out of the other half of the bracket so they can continue to host on turf. They would get that if Rowan were to beat Wilkes, but I also doubt the Springfield/St. John Fisher potential rematch in round two would replicate round one. Springfield will still be favored but that doesn’t mean the game will be the same.
Can anyone aside from Capital hang with Mount Union in the top bracket? Can Capital even do it?
Kind of a neat story to get two long-time playoff drought teams together in round one in Pittsburgh. Contrast in styles, too.
West, two storied programs meet in the first round in Pella, while Bethel tries again to get the first-round monkey off its back.
Floor open for your thoughts.
Two conference teams playing in the first round should never happen. What a jip for the conference.
AND, two WIAC teams may be playing each other in the second round…
pcole, nice job on ESPN News.
Is there going to be a playoff pool this year on d3football.com?
SeanGOP – yes there is going to be a Pick ’em this year. Look for it tomorrow mid-afternoon.
Interesting how things turned out in the south. Texas teams get screwed, and all the predictions topple over as a result. Still need an explanation why CMU and W+J aren’t playing each other. And instead of Dickinson moving, it’s W+L.
Prediction – St. Norbert gets beat by at least 40 points.
Worth mentioning that three “national powers” had their playoff streaks come to an end.
Trinity’s nine-year, Bridgewater’s six-year and Linfield’s four-year.
Congrats to their previous success! Should be interesting to see if they can return in 2007, or if it’s a more permanent changing of the guard in the SCAC, ODAC and NWC.
None-the-less, very inpressive by those three schools!
Pat, My first post ever. Your playoff projections were awesome. I was really excited to play Millsaps the first round at home.Obviously I underestimated the stupidity of the committee. I just went to Mappoint and also got 491.6 by the SHORTEST DISTANCE the second time I punched it in. The first time it gave the interstate route even on SHORTEST DISTANCE. If “shortest distance on mappoint” is truly the 500 mile fly/bus criteria, the NCAA has once again proven they are idiots of the first magnitude. Any goofball should be able to tell from the map that comes online there has to be a shorter distance to get from Jackson to Belton than IH 20 and IH 35. AND OF COURSE THERE IS!! Even mapquest has the shortest distance at 498 miles. Oh, and what about the inviolate rule of no conference rematches in the first round. I know UMHB can beat HSU again, but to beat such a fine team twice in the same year is tough. THIS IS NOT FAIR–AGAIN!!!
The East bracket is a total injustice to Cortland. The Red Dragons play in a tougher conference with a one loss season and still did not make the NCAA. Union and Hobart are in the same boat and was chosen to represent a soft conference. I don’t understand the logic in Union chosen over Cortlland. Totally WRONG. Go C-State.
The “soft conference” had a team (Hobart) that beat Cortland in the playoffs last year.
Pat,
I think I may have figured out how you received a different distance for Millsaps. I went to MSN Mappoint and typed in Jackson, MS to Belton, TX using the shortest distant choice and received 491.6 miles. When I selected the shortest time choice, however, I received 530.3 miles. This would put Millsaps over the 500 mile limit. I don’t think it should be judged by time, but rather by distance. Does 30 miles really make that big of a difference? I don’t think so. Then the committee sends Millsaps on a 963.2 mile trip to Carnegie Mellon. I guess I don’t understand the committee’s thoughts. The situation, however, does make for a great game on Sat. in Belton.
texas1 wake up, Union got an automatic bid. Learn about the system before you put it down! The LL is not soft either, but I do think that Cortland does play in a tougher conference overall. If Union did not get the automatic bid then I agree that Cortland would be a better choice. Maybe you were thinking of Hobart? Either way, you better hope Rowen beats Hobart or you will be totally wrong.
Either way. Cortland is a better choice over the 2nd place team in LL. Both LL will not past round 2 of the NCAA.
Well, aside from the frustrations perpetrated a bureaucracy that is not held accountable for its imperfect processes and yet seeks to promote “best practices” (Mappoint shortest distance vs. some version of Mapquest or whatever), the South Region is hard to comprehend.
We see the seedings by the most recent QOWI.
1) Wesley 12.200 #1
2) HSU 11.000 #11
3) UMHB 10.500 #17
4) CNU 10.444 #18T
5T) CMU 10.333 #21T
5T) W&J 10.333 #21T
7) Dickinson 9.500 #35
8) Millsaps 8.700 #60T
9) Wash & Lee 8.500 #66T
How much earlier does W&J have to leave to drive across 3-4 states, depending on the route, from western PA to eastern VA to get to the playoff game. Isn’t the geographic proximity about not missing classtime? What about the W&J students who might wish to drive into Pittsburgh to see the Presidents play a playoff game?
My cynical side says that CMU got the most favorable draw (aside from Wesley) in the first round. I am also going with Millsaps to get the first round win!
The plane flight thing could bite the NCAA’s budget! As for now, if higher seeds win, we have one flight in the first round (Millsaps to CMU), one in the second round (CNU winner vs Texas) and maybe a UMHB/HSU back to Wesley–3 flights.
I can see Millsaps beating CMU (one flight), Millsaps going to Wesley (2nd flight), CNU-W&J winner vs Texas Winner (3rd flight), Texas winner to Wesley for the South Region (4th flight).
I could have imagined Dickinson going to the East where I am certain they are more likely to have preferred than Wesley.
CMU-W&J/ Wesley-CNU/ and UMHB-Millsaps/HSU-W&L — one flight
CMU winner to Wesley/ and HSU to UMHB no flights
Wesley hosting Texas winner — one flight.
We maintain conference integrity for the ASC with this bracket. I realize that CNU gets the short end of that one.
There is lots of frustration in the ASC and from other Texas fans about the job that the selection committee did to us!
The brackets have been updated to include the seedings. View the updated brackets.
If you’re a fan of Cortland State or Franklin, you’re upset. Understandibly.
The rest of the brackets, save the Texas fiasco, are pretty much what everybody expected. As a HSU fan, I’m just at a loss for words on the first round pairing. I’m sure the UMHB fans feel about the same way.
AA really has it in for us Texas folks, I guess.
Does anybody know how many players a team can dress at home or on the road?
Really, would Cortland? Who is the only team to come out of the East….? Not Cortland! So you could say Cortland would not get past the 2nd round as well. You sholdn’t be bitter, you sound like a little boy crying. I agree that Cortland should go instead of Hobart but, didn’t hobart beat you guys in the playoffs last year? As I recall Hobart finished 2nd in the LL last season also. So you make it sound like a travisty that Hobart got selected ahead of Cortland, but just last year they beat you. Listen man I do agree with you somewhat, but don’t be that bitter guy. I don’t think Cortland should be punished for losing to Rowen in OT, and I think they have been. I can only imagine how good Cortland would have been with their number #1 QB playing all year long. It is a touchy situation. Just simmer on the LL, because again, if it is such a weak conference how did its 2nd place team beat yours last year.
Pride,
I believe the number is 52 players plus 10 coaches. Pat will correct me if I am wrong but I believe that is the numbers I read earlier in the weekend.
Pride:
Yes, 52 players and 10 coaches, whether you’re at home or on the road.
Thanks Guys
It seems like the NCAA is more interested spending money to tell a school what it’s team mascot is than it is taking time and spending money to do the right thing when it comes to the brackets and seedings in D3.
There is no good or right reason that HSU & UMHB should be playing in the first round. The ASC is getting screwed on this bracket.
My initial reactions — and unlike Pat, I haven’t had very long to digest it — is the three rematches and some of the weak matchups in the first round which will guarantee a second-round appearance for some team who is worse than the UMHB/HSU loser. But Trinity/Millsaps did them no favors.
We’ve known about the West Coast sub-bracket and Texas sub-bracket for years; no use whining about them getting “screwed” when this has been established over several years, expected in advance and delivered on.
Cortland, which some people thought got favorable treatment (not unfair, just “lucky”) in being one of the last teams in last year ends up being the first team out this year.
Poetic justice, maybe. But an absolutely tough break when your team is 9-1 with an overtime loss. Cortland, as we mentioned, would have been a 1 or 2 seed in the East had it outscored Rowan in overtime, or nailed a field goal that hit the upright in regulation or any number of other small things that made a difference in that game.
A game of inches, as they say.
Keith, between the use of some sort of mileage standard OTHER than the NCAA-mandated Mappoint, and violation of the policy (I thought it was an actual rule, but apparently not) against rematches of conference foes in the first round, I do not think ‘screwed’ is too strong a term for what happened to the ASC! (And I’m a CCIW guy.)
Its the same deal every year since about 2000 – Union, RPI and/or Bart make the playoffs and a few fans from the NJAC and E8 say how “soft” our conference is (then RPI goes to the F4 in 03, Bart beats Cortland and Union drops 55 on IC in 05- both of which counted for our high preseason rankings this year which probably helped us in the selection committee, etc).
To those few still living in the past, please wake up – it’s 2006 not 96 or 86.
I get Cortland’s frustration, but Bart deserved to go to the playoffs for the 5th time in 7 years.
The LL had 5 of its 7 teams finish the season above .500. The NJAC had 4 out of 8. Your 4th place team – which beat your 3rd place team – lost by 10 pts to the LL’s 6th place team, a 3-6 club.
Cortland’s non conference wins were over Morrisville (1-8) Brockport (4-6) and IC (7-3) – tough years for all of those teams (except maybe Morrisville). Ok, so the NJAC has Rowan, but even most Rowan posters would probably say that this season Rowan is having a “down year” by their standards too.
Bart on the other hand, beat Dickinson (CC Champ) and Alfred (7-3, who also beat IC) – up years for them.
When it comes down to limited space for lots of good teams, why shouldn’t the committee take the team that played a slightly tougher out of conference schedule and in slightly tougher league THIS SEASON?
No one has yet made a solid argument to me why Cortland was a better candidate than Hobart that they deserved the Pool C over them.
Of course, you hung with Rowan had a great season. I am not saying that the fact you were left out was a bad deal – it was – Cortland SHOULD have made it in, but the process isn’t perfect. But to say that Bart didn’t deserve it? That is just whining IMO.
All Bart can do now is go down to Rowan and beat them – otherwise, it will be the same old thing again next season about how weak the LL is….
Hobart may have beaten cortland last year in the playoffs but that was last year. This year cortland and hobart played a scrimmage before the season that I know doesnt count but still Cortland beat up on Hobart pretty easily. They actaully ended early because hobart was getting killed. It was a scrimmage but it was the week before the season started and i’m sure both teams were playing like it meant something. No one wants to start the season getting killed in a pratcie game. So for everyone who says Hobart deserves it, good thing it wasnt a scheduled game because you might be sitting at home this year instead of us.
Mr Ypsi, thanks for the the sentiment! As a CCIW fan who has seen that strong basketball conference dealt some strange administrative issues, you can understand our frustration.
Well, we just have to move on. Not fun, but that is the way that it goes!
Pat is about to appear on WONC 89.1 FM at North Central College. Tune in for playoff analysis.
http://www.wonc.org/
Sour Grapes. It’s a shame that Cortland did not get in, it is a shame. We’d be having this same debate if Cortland got in over Hobart. It could have went either way. Hobart the Co-LL champs got in and Cortland didnt. Cortland fans stop being partisan homers and use your brains to see that it could have went the other way. There is also a 7-3 team in the playoff team in the playoffs, why arent you blasting them. Why do you Cortland fans hate Hobart so much??? I’m not from around the area but all I see is hate, hate and more hate geared toward Hobart by Cortland fans.
pcole, great job today!
once again – no real logic to support your argument. you said it yourself
a) it was a preseason scrimmage that didn’t count
+
b) you THINK they were playing like it meant something
like i said b/f, it’s a raw deal for cortland. i am still not accepting you can gauge how good or bad a team is based on a meaningless scrimmage.
What a joke! Cortland should be in, don’t feel bad CS fans these are the same people that had Hobart ranked all year.
Perhaps they’re not blasting the 7-3 teams because they got automatic bids. That’s apples, you’re oranges.
Show’s over, thanks for listening. 🙂
Not much respect from the NY schools for the LL league – hard to understand. Union and IC have always had great battles with Union winning the last couple of meetings. As for Cortland, tough call. I would be upset too but you had to know it wasn’t a lock. Some years you’re in and some years you’re out but wow so much hobart trash talk. Congrats to the pumpkin heads and best of luck. To Cortland, bringing scrimmages into the discussion, come on. I recall Cortland having the #1 defense in the country in ’89 and UC smoked them 40something to 14 (or around there). Sounds like everyone is picking SJF and Rowan or UC and ‘bart. Any score predictions?
got it pcole, i didnt know the 7-3 team got the AQ… Sorry Cortland, I feel for you but this could have went either way.
dcfbguy it’s not a hate for Hobart but a love for Football.Any team that could come out to play the way they did when they played Union for what was the league championship should not be skipping off to the playoffs.NO sour grapes just injustice.CS fans it’s not the first time they got it wrong and it won’t be the last,great season. A football fan
bart has one bad game and so they don’t deserve to go to the playoffs? like other parties have said – could have turned out the other way – cortland fans can’t fault bart – if the shoe was on the other foot – bart fans would have similar beefs over how they had a better QoW, etc.
like pat said – bart didn’t take your pool c bid away.
Cam08, again, you are funny and you make me laugh. Cortland fans this is getting crazy. Please stop the this garbage against Hobart. If you are going to refer to a scrimmage than I’ll refer to the game last year. You cannot win. All you can do is attempt to find a scapegoat in the LL. You have every right to be angry, Cortland is a very good team that deserved to be in, no doubt in my mind. You know many fans on this blog can come out with class when things go wrong for their teams. So stop the crying, and be upset, but stop trying to rip Hobart. You just don’t have enough factual info to support the claims against the LL, so grow up.
What’s done is done… We cant change anything, i feel for Cortland… Now they need do destroy their oppnent in the ECAC bowl to prove and show that they belonged in the tourney.
I’m glad you laugh so easy,and I am so sorry if I hurt the feelings of Barttie’s or the L.L.I’m just going to step out to see if I can find some class now. Tah Tah
I think we’re beginning to get to the point–if we haven’t already been there–where we (as fans) need to take into consideration the NCAA’s continued bias (for lack of a better term) against the Texas teams when evaluating playoff records for overall conference strength. After all, somebody has to lose this weekend.
Cortland deserved their shot. The real problem for them was the automatic conference winners with two or three losses. There are probably any number of teams with two or three losses that didn’t make it but are better than 75% of the field. And in the end, maybe one or two teams actually have a chance of beating or even coming close to Mount Union.
Oh, come on, give me a break, people. The system isn’t a surprise to Cortland State. It hasn’t changed in the past year — in the past seven years, really. The automatic bids went in in 1999 and they are an integral part of NCAA postseason at every level. This isn’t the time to start griping about that, folks.
Cam08, good luck buddy, no feelings hurt here. I think you and I just disagree on mostly everything. Sorry if I came on to strong.
Guys if you really wanted to gripe how about Pool B and C bids being combined? Not that it would change anything for Cortland. Of course you will really have a gripe if St. John’s loses in the first round, then you could say you should have been in instead of the Johnnies.
Can someone explain how the regions got seeded? The Mount Union Region is seeded #1 with only 3 teams in the most recent D3football.com top 25. One team is ranked #38 and another is unranked. The UW-Whitewater Region has all 8 teams ranked in the top 25, 5 in the top 10! This only comes into play in the semi-finals if two similarly seeded teams from differernt regions meet (the team from the higher seeded region gets home field).
The automatic bids have to be there or some conferences would never get a chance. But the whole conference concept and bid system has really ruined the local rivalries in Upstate NY. Once upon a time Hobart played Brockport, Ithaca, Cortland, Alfred, Hamilton, St. John Fisher, Buffalo St, Rochester… Now those are mostly gone and almost every road game is at least four hours away. Why are Cortland and Buff. State playing in the New Jersey Athletic Conference?? Everybody jumped on the conference bandwagon a few years ago and now you don’t play your next door neighbor. I just wondered if any one else has seen this happen in their neck of the woods??
Traditionally the NCAA seeds the bracket based on the No. 1 seed in that bracket, since the idea of seeding the brackets in the first place is to have a system in place for when equal high seeds advance.
Mr.dlippiel where I come from we get to talk a little trash with are football.And I am sorry but I must have missed when you came on strong,however my feelings are intacked.Go Hobart
Guess I’ll be the first to really comment on Franklin…
In my opinion, Franklin didn’t get screwed by the selection committee or the process. Franklin got screwed when Cortland and St John’s couldn’t take care of business themselves.
If those two teams beat Rowan and Bethel like they should have, Franklin would be in!
*removes tounge from cheek*
According to Microsoft Streets and Trips, it is 532.3 miles from Millsaps College to the University of Mary Hardin Baylor