That phrase above is the key part of the Division III sportsmanship statement, but in some places it is ignored by administrators and trampled on by fans. That’s the only conclusion I can draw from my experiences this past weekend.
As you may know, I went to three Division III football games over the weekend. At two of them, the fans did support the participants and officials in a positive manner. (More so the participants.) However, fan behavior at Wilkes was appalling, to an extent on both sides, but especially from the Wilkes fans.
As it stands right now, I would never take my children to a Wilkes game and I would recommend nobody else do so either.
And I’m not even talking about the inebriated mob standing in one end zone at the end of the game. It’s the fans in the other end zone who chose to berate individual players from the opposing team, loudly and with the foulest language I’ve ever heard at a D-III event. (And I’ve been to a lot.) At one point in the game Delaware Valley was punting from its own end zone. While several fans in the corner of the end zone were yelling at the punter, one person stepped up and yelled at the top of his lungs, “You f—ing f-g–t, you’re nothing but a f—ing f-g–t! Pressure’s all on you, you f—ing f-g–t!”
I shot a picture of the fan and it’s in our gallery if anyone wants to follow up.
Security? Nowhere in sight, of course.
I wouldn’t mention it if it were an isolated incident, or if the university had shown any interest in policing its crowd. But this harkens back, unfortunately, to many problems that we have had with MAC fans on the message board in the past, and echoes other problems reported regarding MAC fan behavior. You’d have to have been around the league a fairly long time to remember a brawl between Wilkes and Lycoming fans after a men’s basketball game in the late ’90s, but I remember full well, since it was part of a pattern of fan behavior, and a previous MAC commissioner and a since-departed basketball coach had the gall to blame us for it.
At the time, I pointed out that the MAC had no sportsmanship statement and if it did, it was not on the conference’s Web site.
This is going on eight years later and the MAC still does not. It doesn’t even pay lip service to sportsmanship, and it shows at the games. It is long past time for the MAC to take this seriously.
“Ladies and gentlemen, the NCAA promotes good sportsmanship by student-athletes, coaches and spectators. We request your cooperation by supporting the participants and officials in a positive manner. Profanity, racial, or sexist comments, or other intimidating actions directed at officials, student-athletes, coaches or team representatives will not be tolerated and are grounds for removal from the site of competition. Also, the consumption or possession of alcoholic beverages at the site of competition is prohibited.”
Let’s see, profane, racial, sexist and intimidating. Yeah, that pretty much covers it.
The MAC should take direction from its like-minded neighbor to the north, the Empire 8. That league has been at the forefront of sportsmanship efforts in Division III for years and commissioner Chuck Mitrano has been the driving force. Sportsmanship in Division III was the subject of a lengthy piece in a recent edition of the NCAA News. (NCAA News stories were lost in an NCAA.org redesign, so the link is no longer available.)
“You could educate until you’re blue in the face, but if you don’t have a policy under which to monitor and enforce things — to hold people’s feet to the fire — it just isn’t going to be beneficial,” Mitrano says in the NCAA News piece. “To really have an impact, be successful and have longevity, all three things have to work together.”
But that requires work. The MAC needs to roll up its sleeves and get to it, like other conferences have already done.
And this to the fans, though I’m repeating something I wrote in December:
These players do not deserve your abuse. A Division III football player gets no special treatment above and beyond what you get. They’re not on scholarship, don’t get special dining halls or treatment in the classroom (in fact, you can count on some professors being harder on football players than on the rest of the class).
If you need to get all liquored up in order to enjoy a football game, stay home. The football should be reason enough. If you’re of legal age, there’s plenty of time to drink after the game. Otherwise, act like the adults you allegedly are.
I find it quite troubling about some of your opinions you shared tonight on the subject matter at hand. I was and still am one of those so called “inebriated mob” standing around at the Wilkes vs Del. Val. game. I would have to totally disagree on most things that you said and point out some facts about what happened that Saturday. First off in most of your “inebriated mob” crowd pictures you can clearly see Administration, Public Safety, and Local Police. Wilkes University is not a suitcase school, College Students do go there and like to have fun to watch a football game. Being that this game was hyped up and was one of the biggest games ever in the recent history. I would expect any college student to have a good time, hell the Del. Val parents where there before us. It’s called spirit, school spirit and yes maybe some fans do get out of hand. However I would expect that someone with your knowledge of D3Football, would seek out someone to do something when someone says “You f—ing f-g–t, you’re nothing but a f—ing f-g–t! Pressure’s all on you, you f—ing f-g–t!” It is not like no one was around like you said they are clearly visible in all of the “inebriated mob” photos you took.
Guess you didn’t read. Other end zone, I said.
Show me security here:
http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1273&photo=0119
http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1273&photo=0123
http://www.pictureprints.net/albums.php?gallery=1273&photo=0228
Actually, there is a “security” person in one of those images. I did talk to him later in the game about the extreme lack of control.
Those pictures you cite of the end of the game are not at all of the group I’m talking about.
If that’s is the case then state it don’t generalize that the problem came from the Wilkes Fans. You make and give the whole article a tone of against the Wilkes Students and fans. Your pictures tell a different story that when it came down to it Wilkes was in deed under control of the fans and security was in place. That second picture shows an administrator moving towards the crowd to move and calm down. As for me I would also like to say I was told by both police and administration to back up and not cheer in a negative fashion or be thrown out for the season on the opposite side of the end zone where the plays were being run.
Well first off,
This is not an outrageous opinion for Pat to have. As far as the remarks made to the punter, few students and no coach, concerned parent or school administrator would go on record saying that’s OK to say. Not much to argue there. Plenty of other stuff you could say to try to rattle the guy.
What I don’t like is WUMAC’s inference that you need to get drunk to enjoy the game, or whatever it is you mean by “have a good time.” That’s BS, and if you or anyone else believes that you’re a fraud as a fan and probably as a person.
If you want to get drunk, that’s your choice. If it helps you have fun, that’s you. But if it also keeps you from controlling yourself, you should at least be accountable for what happens to you, what you make happen to others or what people say about you while you were drunk.
Players are locked in to what’s going on in the game, I don’t think they care how many people are there, not in D3. Still, I wouldn’t go as far as to say you need to stay home.
I went to a school where the football tailgate was at least a big a deal as most games to a lot of people, and where drinking was looked at as such a birthright by a lot of students that they got mad when campus safety enforced the underage rules.
I’m not idiotic enough to say drinking doesn’t go on at games, D3 or otherwise, around the country. And I’m not gonna sit here and lie and say I haven’t been drunk and liked it.
But if you make the choice to drink and possibly give up your self-control, you deserve whatever’s coming to you in the way of being held accountable for your actions.
The fact that conferences need to focus on sportsmanship and security for a bunch of supposedly educated adults is a black eye on the schools and conferences in question. It shouldn’t even have to come to that. There are a lot of places I’ve been around the country where they’d rarely have a need to use the security they have. That’s how it should be.
I don’t think having a rowdy crowd is a bad thing. As a player, I thrived on big game atmospheres, like trash talk and crazy crowds. (and actually, of the places I played, fans from Pat’s alma mater were the only ones I remember taunting players from just outside the dotted line and getting in drunken fights with our fans).
I also remember a fight last year in the street outside Wesley’s stadium with Bridgewater fans. I didn’t mention it much probably out of selfish reasons, thinking that that kind of thing does happen and probably because I didn’t want single out two schools with predominantly black lineups as thuggish across the nation when fights go on at all kinds of places. I saw how that reputation and perhaps below-the-surface racism/prejudice trailed Rowan for a long time, and I didn’t want to contribute to it for Bridgewater and Wesley, especially since the fighters were a mixed crowd and generally unrelated to the teams. Maybe not making a big deal out of it was not the right decision, but that’s the one I made.
In any case, WUMAC, you may have a legitimate point if you’re mad about your friends or your school being singled out when this goes on plenty of places.
But don’t act like it’s out of line for Pat or anyone else in a position to speak out or in a position of power to want to curb out of control behavior, especially if those people feel its a consistent problem. It’s not only not wrong, it’s exactly the logical thing to do.
That second picture shows an administrator but he didn’t actually do anything. And he was nowhere to be seen when the f-bombs were dropping.
I am pretty sure I stated my position — I hope other people read a little more closely and don’t jump to conclusions after a couple of sentences.
I’ve attended 62 Bridgewater games the last six years, always sticking out by wearing a Bridgewater t-shirt, hat and/or jersey. Because BC made the playoffs those six years, I’ve had the opportunity to see the Eagles play in five different states against 11 different opponents from seven different conferences. And I’m not one to plop down in a seat on the home or visitor side. I walk around (pace, in other words) from sideline to sideline. So I certainly put myself out there. I can honestly say that all in all, the fans of our opponents have been great. There will, unfortunately, always be those one or two (or even 20) fans who are either a) just outspoken people and/or b) drank (heavily) before the game.
The ODAC must do an excellent job educating and policing its games, because except for the occasional BC-HSC game, the fans from both sides have been excellent. I guess because I haven’t really run into truly drunk fans not being policed, I kind of figured that was the way it was at all games. The only three games I’ve been to the last 62 where fans have gotten out of hand were against HSC, MUC and Wesley. In all three cases, the fans were talked to and eventually stopped. Case closed. And it wasn’t even foul language in those three cases – it was taunting by the visiting fans towards the other fans (and yes, BC was the culprit at HSC one year).
I couldn’t imagine a school or conference not stressing sportsmanship – and more so not policing it. If it’s true about Wilkes and the MAC, I feel for the players and parents who participate in and attend those games. I also feel blessed to be a part of a league that does stress it and police it.
I’m with Pat on the whole “stay home” part. If you get to the point where you can’t control what comes out of your mouth, there’s no need for you to be in public – much less around children or older folks. And don’t give me the argument that once drunk, you can control yourself. No one (with a right mind) would drop f-bombs at a public event knowing full well that there are 1000s of people that don’t want to hear that kind of stuff.
And I don’t think Pat is generalizing. He’s simply talking from experience about the Wilkes-Del Val game he attended. And he clearly states that the yelling came from a person or persons from the end zone – so he’s not saying its all Wilkes or MAC fans. What he is saying is that Wilkes and the MAC need to do something about the handful of fans that can’t control themselves. Pretty simple request if you ask me.
I was fortunate enough to see a fine football game this past Saturday- Hardin-Simmons vs. Linfield. I was one of about 75 Linfield supporters that were able to attend the game. In the first quarter there was a questionable call by the refs and one of our own decided to stand up and start “f-ing” out the ref. Several Linfield fans told him to sit down and act apporpriately. Problem solved. Sure, there are always going to be those fans that can’t or won’t act with class, but helping to police your own and showing people how to act appropriately is a place to start.
Pat,
While it’s nice to know that the Empire 8 has a policy on sportsmanship, as I read your description of the inebriated mob that you witnessed at Wilkes, I could not help but think that you could have just as easily been describing the inebriated mob that I witnessed at Springfield College two weeks ago vs Union.
As it was a night game that was delayed further by a line of thunderstorms, the student body at Springfield was particularly wound up by game time. At Springfield there is a student housing complex right behind the visitors bleachers. While not actually inside of the football complex there were hundreds of Springfield students lined up along the fence behind the visitors side throughout the game. This afforded them the opportunity to drink beer and watch the game. Throughout the game this group hurled insults at the players, coaches and fans of Union College.
Springfield has a fine football team that has rebounded nicely from a down year in 2005. But Springfield College has a long way to go if they are serious about adhering to the Empire 8’s policy on sportsmanship.
Pat, it sounds like you were unfortunately subjected to the same type of behavior I was when I attended last season’s Delaware Valley-Lycoming game.
Surprisingly enough, the players on both sides were the most respectful and civil groups there. The fans and coaching staff from both schools were, quite honestly, an embarassment.
I applaud your efforts to bring this issue to fore.
fbgcat–I am pleased to hear your positive report on the sportsmanship from the HSU/Linfield game. I was there, too (obviously from the photos on this site), and found the atmosphere from the players, coaches and fans of both teams to generally be one of mutual respect for the other side. When Ralph Turner and I drove home that night, we actually commented to one another that this mutual respect actually added significantly to our enjoyment of the game, as we weren’t being subjected to foul language and generally immature behavior–we were able to focus solely on the quality of the football game being played. Imagine that!
I’d also like to point out to WUMAC that it’s not Pat’s job, as a member of the media, to have to point out this type of abusive behavior to anyone.
His point, which I will echo as someone with almost ten years experience as a college administrator, is that the college has the responsibility to police the attendees of its functions–if for no other reason than simply to promote better PR. However, there are also liability issues applicable if the abusive behavior escalates to the point that it poses a physical danger to other participants or spectators, which is obviously a very serious thing.
I’ve seen people hauled out of professional sports arenas and arrested for disorderly conduct for these types of incidents, why not DIII sports too? If the schools in the MAC started kicking people out right and left and/or arresting people, I can guarantee that the people doing the abusing would get the message real quick and shape up.
kid-
Were you not at the Bridgewater/Wesley game last year that Keith is referring to? Or do you just want to keep pretending that Bridgewater’s fans are perfect?
I think WUMAC’s beef is that there’s probably a more constructive way to address/solve the issue than calling Wilkes out on this website.
I took his beef as his feeling unfairly lumped into a situation that was a problem at Wilkes. However, fbgcat points out perfectly the way fans can be self-policing. But some encouragement from the conference or school can only help.
pumkinhead –
I think you pulled a WUMAC and didn’t read (at least closely) my post.
I said of the 62 games I’ve attended, only three do I remember fans being overly obnoxious. Now that doesn’t mean that at the rest of the games, there weren’t fans yelling things they shouldn’t. I’m sure that happens at every game. But the three games that stand out to me were Wesley, Mount Union (the second one) and Hampden-Sydney. To be specific, at the Wesley game, it was a group of about 20 or so Wesley fans that would yell things at me when I went up and down the home stands (I was helping out in the press box).
I can’t speak about whatever Keith heard or saw. Not sure I even know what he’s talking about. I pretty much got out of Delaware as quickly as possible after that blowout, ha.
D3Keith –
Actually, we have more white players than we do black.
I guess those pictures surprised me, I guess I’m just naive, that fans are allowed to cruise the sidelines so close to the field.
Midwest,
As a photographer that has covered over 80 events in the last two seasons I have seen fans milling the sidelines in all respects of Division III sports. Basketball fans, which I have seen to be the most “rowdy” are the ones that stay in their seats the most. Hockey fans, by nature, are rowdy and tend to (in the smaller venues) fill all available space. I have had to ask people to move at football and hockey and, for the most part, they have been obligatory.
That’s just my two bits.
midwestfb:
As I posted on the MAC page, I think (one man’s opinion) that to allow spectators so close to the action is to ask for trouble. What are the odds that some day a drunken fan or two won’t run onto the field and mug an opposing player? (Or has this already happened?)
A fence or barrier of some sort would certainly help.
In the long run, the institution itself has to provide adequate supervision and crowd control.
WUMAC I think you really proved Pats point with your response. I think you may possibly be a part of that group Pat was talking about. This game is about the kids, about the hard work they put in on and off the field. Respect and sportsmanship is something that should always accompany D3 sports. Yes fans are human and can get out of control but there is a line and obviously Pat saw that line crossed and reported it. That University should be ashamed of themselves. tlm I was at the Springfield game and was also disturbed by what I saw from the Springfield students. At one pointa college student drunk behind the fences was picking a fight with a father. Security did finally come but well after the fact. It is just ashame that these events can get so out of control. Pat I think you are right for discussing what you saw. The more it is dicussed the sooner (hopefully) it will stop.
Certainly member institutions of the E8 are not without sin. However, a statement read at each contest advocating good sportsmanship certainly reminds spectators of their responsibility to SUPPORT their team and to refrain from inappropriate behavior and language. The Alfred University athletic director has, to the point of frustrating some students who’d like to think they are the Cameron Crazies, maintained crowd control.
AUPepBand attempts to provide a positive means whereby AU fans can support their team vocally. Last year at Fisher’s Growney Stadium, AU had many fans in attendance, some of whom sitting near the band at one point began to chant inappropriately. A member of the band asked them to stop, asking their Alfred student friends to “show some class.”
But we’re human; we need to be reminded. Thanks for the reminder, Pat.
I found a reference to sportsmanship on the MAC’s website in the Fact Book — Executive section (Article VI):
http://www.lvc.edu/mac/Fact%20Book/Executive.pdf
To be honest, I don’t think these web statements accomplish much of anything, whether they are buried in a PDF (MAC) or placed more prominently as a link of a sidebar (NESCAC).
The E8’s approach is pretty interesting and looks fairly extensive on its face. But, as others have pointed out, spectator misbehavior is not new nor solely confined to the MAC.
Cortland and Ithaca fans (the later in the Empire 8) can tell all kinds of stories about Cortaca jug delinquence. And two years ago St. John Fisher and Naz men’s hoops had a fight sparked partly by the crowd (or so said the Nazareth coach).
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/sports/general/0224Q13CK9V_sports.shtml
Maybe the key is in making sure you respond to incidents when they happen. That strikes me as far more important than posting something on your website that says, “being bad is…uh…bad”
wt,
I’m not so worried about a drunken fan mugging an opposing player (though it could certainly happen).
But in these litigious times, why aren’t schools more worried about a fan getting hit by a player going out of bounds – sounds like a injury lawyer’s dream! The players have pads (and are in shape), the fans don’t (and often aren’t). One quadriplegiac fan, and a school could be all but bankrupt. Any SMART administrator would want them FAR from the field!
Reading this post and the subsequent comments has been seriously discouraging. I think I would find it hard to love DIII as much as I do if I had experienced this stuff. This blog makes many of the CCIW basketball fans that frustrated me over the years look like Mother Theresa…. well almost.
I guarantee it’s possible to be rowdy and supportive, and have tons of fun at games while being totally sober. I don’t even know how you can enjoy a game if you’re so drunk you can’t understand and see the fine nuances of what is going on.
If students want to show up at a public, school-sponsored event drunk (being drunk at all being completely illegal for like, 3/4 on college students anyway)… the least the administration can do is save themselves, the institution, and the students, the embarassment and disgrace of their illegally drunk students acting like fools.
On the opposite spectrum, I just want to point out that there is one game this weekend that any parent could feel very good about taking their kids to… Wheaton @ Hope. I’m not sure I have never seen a security guard at a Wheaton event… even if the other team’s fans/players are crude, our students and fans just wouldn’t be low class enough to fight back. I also seriously love playing Calvin and Hope, and I hope we continue to do so for a long time…. It will definitely be my pick for family visits to my alma mater. I don’t necessarily know what the players and fans of our three schools do in their personal time, but the administrations pretty much have their student bodies under their thumb at games.
In the midst of the frustration, I just thought it was important to celebrate those who do it right. 🙂
I’m glad you brought up that incident, Gordon. I believe the Empire 8 took appropriate steps to make sportsmanship a high priority, not just in SJF/Nazareth men’s basketball, but the entire league and the NCAA. Burying something deep in the seventh part of an 11-part PDF file is not the same as wearing your standards on your sleeve, is it?
Leagues that don’t make sportsmanship a public priority should do so before problems turn actionable rather than just embarrassing.
The more I thought about it, I wondered if my post yesterday set things off on an alternate course unnecessarily.
Maybe it’s a good dialogue though. I’m not sure. Guess I should read it, huh?
Halfway through … I actually figured that both Bridgewater and Wesley might have more white players than black; the fact, however, is not necessarily as important in this case as perception, and I didn’t want to give those teams that ‘thug’ perception since the fight was among fans, in the street, outside the stadium.
I also thought of more brawls and dumb drunken antics from H-SC/R-MC rivalry games. How could I forget “defending the goal posts” and things like that.
In a way, I think the fierceness adds to some rivalries, and I don’t have a problem with people being cursed at or punched if they choose to put themselves in harm’s way. But for the people who just come to enjoy the game, or even worse, bring their kids, there needs to be a standard and it needs to be enforced or else the rowdy majority ruins it for the peaceful masses.
Another thought … what goes at one place doesn’t necessarily go everywhere. You could go many ways with that, but what I mean is that what’s acceptable and encouraged fan behavior at the pro games in Philadelphia is likely how fans of Wilkes and other Eastern Pa. schools have grown up rooting. I’m not sure we can expect those guys to be shake hands and share Stiftungfest burgers or ribs at Stone Station if they don’t normally act that way. Now that shouldn’t mean that fans from certain regions of the country are incapable of friendliness and should be excused for unruly behavior.
I guess I’m just throwing that out there.
Honestly, I always thought the reading aloud thing was sort of silly as those things are understood — except for officials, who are treated like non-humans and that’s accepted. But I guess that’s a good point, that putting that statement out there before each game at least says that ‘our league cares about this, and if you cross the line, don’t say we never told you there were consequences.’
The MAC does recite that standard statement about sportsmanship before every game, I believe.
And I’m not convinced that placing rhetoric on a website says anything meaningful about the conference’s approach to sportsmanship.
The NESCAC has a link off the front page. The MIAA — home of the Calvin and Hope teams DHF cites — mentions sportsmanship in the mission statement, but you probably wouldn’t know it’s there unless you’re looking for it. Does that mean the NESCAC takes sportsmanship more serious than the MIAA?
I doubt the canned sportsmanship statement or the website rhetoric does much to deter individuals who decide to abuse players, officials, other fans, etc.
What makes a real difference, beyond individual responsibility, is enforcement — does the school take action when something bad happens. Or, better yet, does the conference take action to build a real sense of sportsmanship before something happens. That’s where the Empire 8 sets itself apart — not the link of its website.
Sure. Everyone recites (that’s a good word to use — think pledge of allegiance, saying the same thing over and over without giving it any thought) it. But who acts on it?
Not Wilkes. And the conference doesn’t even pay lip service to it on its Web site, setting no positive example for its schools.
“And I’m not convinced that placing rhetoric on a website says anything meaningful about the conference’s approach to sportsmanship.”
What approach? We have no evidence there IS an approach. Even paying lip service would be better. We could be convinced there was an approach if the league were at least paying lip service.
I only now realized that I was still cabonney on this blog. Longtime posters may (or may not!) remember that cabonney is now Mr. Ypsi (thanks Pat and sac – I like this name better!)
I doubt the effectiveness of a ‘boiler-plate’ statement about sportsmanship – whether announced or simply on a website. Enforcement is the key – ideally by other fans, if necessary by administrators or cops (though administrators and cops can’t enforce if there isn’t a statement in the first place)! Some of the incidents noted above should NEVER have happened (or should have had SEVERE repercussions if they did).
While I confess to using the term myself, anyone dropping the f-bomb in a public forum (with children present, no doubt) should be escorted out (possibly arrested), and barred for the rest of the season.
AND, referring back to the cabonney post, I’m amazed that colleges don’t understand their potential liability.
Some of these potential liabilities (especially overly close fans, but potentially overly threatening fans) could bankrupt many schools.
Wake up, colleges. There are a helluva lot of hungry lawyers out there just waiting to sue you!
D3Keith:
“but what I mean is that’s what’s acceptable and encouraged fan behavior at the pro games in Philadelphia is likely how fans of Wilkes and other Eastern Pa. schools have grown up rooting”.
WOW!!!!!!! Next you’ll be auditioning for a job on 610 WIP to replace Howard Eskin or go national to replace Jim Rome!! I love ya’ but please quit while you’re ahead. That sort of stereotype is almost as cutting to a Philadelphian as a racial stereotype is to a person of color.
Snowballs at Santa Claus, booing Michael Irvin as he laid prone on the 35 yard line (the truth is that the fans were booing Deon Sanders who ran onto the field and “laid hands” on Irvin and pranced around doing some type of religious/spiritual dance….I was there!!). It is all really old!!
Many, many ex-NFL players state that Philadelphia has the most raucous, crazy, supportive and passionate fans anywhere in the league. Opposing players in other sports pretty much say similar things. We are very tough love on our own…….but pity the person from the outside who takes a shot at one of our own (if you had brothers growing up you know what I mean).
It only takes a few knuckleheads to ruin it for everybody and to continue to perpetuate an already overdone reputation. Let’s self-police and clean things up if we don’t like it. I will be firing off a letter to the MAC Commissioner, the President’s and the Athletic Directors of each school (I was at the Wilkes-DVC game on Saturday).
And if we’re not going to take our children to Wilkes to watch a D3 football game………you’d better include a lot of collegiate and all professional venues as well. Just tell them about (versus letting them see and experience) Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Wrigley, etc. Shelter them from this big, bad world. No……..show them exactly how not to act!!!
I’ve got to go downstairs and watch my bootlegged copy of “Invincible” for the third time!!!
“pity the person from the outside who takes a shot at one of our own”
Keith is a Philadelphia Eagles and 76ers fans and grew up in South Jersey. The shots are coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE. 🙂
I have followed/played D3 (ODAC/USA South) for 35 plus years, seen hundreds of D3 athletic contest on dozens of college campuses, and can only remember a handful of isolated incidents. An occasional fight, a few drunks, and the more common tongue lashing a player might take about his personal hygiene, playing ability, or intelligence for choosing a particular institution. Rarely, did it cross the line of having malicious intent.
The beauty of D3 is being able to tailgate within sight of the field and being able to walk the sidelines literally within a few feet of the field. Tailgating, as Keith mentioned is a tradition that is as big as the game itself. I would argue that in some down years for the home team, it is even bigger than the game. Yes, alcohol is a part of that tradition and is not a problem for a majority of people. Let’s not put up any moats or fences just yet because of a few bad apples. Hold the morons accountable that don’t know how to act. Being drunk is no excuse. Many of these offenses mentioned are against the law in most states. Throw a few of these bozos in the pokey overnight with Bubba and I think it will amaze you at how fast they sober up. Who knows, with a little luck, it may even adjust their attitude to the point that they learn how to act at the next ballgame.
pcole – I am aware of Keith’s background but it further supports my point (unless you know a different Keith!!)……….neither one of us is a total nutjob despite the “acceptable and encouraged fan behavior at the pro games in Philadelphia” that we apparently were both routinely subject to in our lives.
In an eight county metro area with a population reaching 5.6 million people, slightly more than 1.1% of this population has Eagles season tickets……….and maybe 0.5% of that group is certifiable!!! The issues at this past Sunday’s Eagles-Giants game were brought on by the younger, drunk Giants fans who bought tickets off of a broker or Ebay. You screw around at the Linc…….you lose your tickets forever and your personal seat license deposit.
You might be from the area or from INSIDE THE HOUSE, but unless you’ve lived it personally, front and center, over many years, it’s not exactly what the hype would lead you to believe. I’ve missed 2 home games in my 28 years as a season ticket holder. I know the difference between the truth and the fiction.
“pity the person from the outside” was not a reference made regarding Keith…………….it was a reference made to the five Giants fans who were picking up their teeth after spewing crewd profanity after the game (in earshot of woman and children). They were told several times to knock it off and they got more vulgar and louder.
The “Children of Rocky Balboa” made sure that it would be a month or two before they could recite Cindy Brady’s famous line……..Sally sells seashells by the seashore……without a lisp!!
Keith…. perhaps I AM getting old after all. After you mentioned it, I seem to recall a few H-SC / R-MC “incidents”. Protecting the goal post, throwing those grapefruit size things off the trees (that I can’t recall the name of) onto the field at H-SC, the 3 man launcher in Ashland shooting water balloons into the H-SC crowd, and the R-MC students that attacked the Tiger mascot. Of course a former Tiger lineman had to come to the rescue. I believe H-SC won the game and the fight that year. 🙂 Oh, the good old days before you had to worry about someone actually getting hurt or sued.
Not only were the fans not booing Ervin(which I must admit I do every time I see the [alleged cokehead] on ESPN)
The Santa who was snowballed was drunk and disordely. And by some accounts was lucky that’s all that happened to him.
Now I know that we Philly fans are not all angels but there have been far worse things done at sporting events in other cities that get a little blurb while if some thing happens in Philly. IT’s the same there they go again..
Ok I got that off my chest…. I was at the Bridgewater/Wesley game. I did not see the incident in the street. I did however view some rather obnoxious Wesley fans in that area after other games. I am not even sure that those students ever made in into the game. I know that security appeared to be more prominent as the crowds grew last year. And there were people escorted from the stands.
ON a lighter note, Rocky Myers (Wesley.s Gagliardi winner) has a cameo in Invincable as Larry Czonka
I have a stupid question probably because I didnt research it enough, but how does
trinity Conn., have the longest win streak in football right now and Ive never heard of them being in the playoffs. Are they banned from post season play or something.????
Check out Around the Nation:
http://www.d3football.com/atn.php
The “because we’re just this way and that’s the way it’s always been” arguement just doesn’t fly. When I was at Bucknell, we kicked several kids out of our basketball games for their conduct, and it worked out just fine–so while it may just be a “Pennsylvania” thing, there are obviously schools in PA that aren’t going to put up with that crap.
Your ticket is a license to view the game only–you really have limited rights other than that–and you never have the right to act abusively in any way, shape or form.
As I stated yesterday, if you, as a fan, want to be drunk, swear, shout abusive statements, etcetera at a ball game, then you should be promptly escorted out of the stadium. For more egregious offenses, the offender should be arrested and booked for disorderly conduct.
Period.
Interesting coincidence – Rick Reilly’s column in this week’s SI is on cursing at sporting events! I’d wonder of Reilly was a secret fan of d3sports.com, except his deadline would have been before Pat’s blog.
Ypsi:
Who can tell how many “closeted” D3 fans are out there? For all we know,
Bobby Knight, Joe Paterno, and Coach K may actually prefer “pure” collegiate competition …. 🙂
Joe Pa and Coach K I could believe, but this thread might upset Bobby (and I wouldn’t want him throwing a chair at me)!
With Knight, a thrown chair might be the least of your worries. 😉
Students who like to raise hell and make drunken asses of themselves should be allowed to do so…..until there parents get tired of footing the legal bills.
Then maybe they can raise hell with the other kids in Iraq and Afghanistan.
hey pat great article it raises a huge point that needs to be address more efficiently…but i do find one problem with your statement with the MAC they do have a sportsmanship bylaw its acticle VII of the Executive regulations listed on their website and usually annouced at championship events at before the start of the match, game, meet or whatever. The other point id just like to hint on to is just raising the question of who is playing the games it is the college students, and they are playing to represent their school and fellow students, alumni and such…if a current student wants to be a mornon the school should do more then sit idle…At lyco i know they have tried to crack down on it especially at the soccer games and football games even kicking people out of the game if it got bad idk if that continues but security there is usually decent with trying to both allow the students to have their “fun” and still allow the other spectators to enjoy the great competition on the field….
Gordon Mann beat you to that by about 24 hours. But if your excuse that it’s on the Web site is that it’s buried in a PDF file in part seven of an 11-part PDF file, how is that promoting it?
Every school recites this pledge at the beginning of games. Who lives up to it?