I’ve been asked this question more this year than any other, and it usually takes one of a couple of forms:
Isn’t it boring if the same team wins all the time?
Don’t you hate that Mount Union wins every year?
Is it boring? Ehh, probably a little bit.
Do I hate it? Nah, not at all. We’re watching one of the greatest dynasties of our day. It’s not like Mount Union 2002 and Mount Union 2005 have anything in common. Each year is a little different.
However, what I don’t like in Division III football is when we enter the season with Mount Union’s championship being a foregone conclusion. Unfortunately, it looks like 2007 is shaping up to be one of those years. Mount Union loses a key piece in Justen Stickley, but the Purple Raiders have proven that offensive linemen are replaceable and Greg Micheli returns, as does Nate Kmic and Pierre Garcon.
Everywhere else you look, teams are losing key pieces. UW-Whitewater loses its coach, its quarterback, three of its four starting defensive linemen, its No. 1 receiver. Capital loses the only quarterback they’ve had during this run of impressive seasons. St. John Fisher loses the best running back in school history and its top tackler. And those are just a few of the key names on the list.
So this is the challenge I throw out to the other 233 Division III teams. Show us something, please. Give us something to be excited about. Move your game to the next level. Otherwise fans outside of Alliance will be hitting the snooze button and waiting for 2008.
Or 2009.
I hate to disagree with you, but I certainly do. It was very difficult for me to endure the game on Saturday. Granted, UWW certainly fell flat on it’s face in the second half and made it a far from competitive game, but for pete’s sake…how can you say that you are okay with a decade’s woth of the SAME CHAMPIONSHIP?
If you say that you think that it’s boring, but you are okay with it being the same victor year after year, then you are clearly saying that you like boredom. The same winners year in and year out are bad for business at any level. I love my Brewers, but can easily understand why people don’t enjoy baseball. It’s no fun watching the Yankees win year after year.
DIII football doesn’t have the ability to regulate parity like major league sports do, and college teams at any level aren’t able to (or aren’t supposed to) buy up the best players and stack the deck. DIII, however, does have a playoff system and can use that to its advantage. If people hate seeing the same team year in and year out, then why not put the National Champions in the toughest bracket? Mt. Union’s trip to the Stagg Bowl was cake compared to UWW’s. MUC had only 4 ranked teams while all of the UWW bracket featured ranked teams and 4 in the top ten. Even with the horrendous special teams play that had plagued UWW throughout the plaoffs, you can’t tell me that UWW wasn’t a little more beaten up than MUC by the time the Stagg Bowl came around.
Bringing my rambling to a close, it was great to see the Stagg Bowl and my Hawks in person for the second year in a row. It may never happen again. I think the NCAA would be fools to move the event away from Salem…the city does it right and they obvously care about its customers. The only downside was some jerk from Ohio shouting “Ohio is the greatest football state!”
Apparently he isn’t aware of the Bengals and the Browns.
In fairness, Warhawk, Pat only said he found it a little boring. But he’s right: the MUC teams are very different, in personnel and often in style. It’s not like watching the Yankees make it to the postseason every year with the same big-money, power-hitting style (though they haven’t won in quite a while, considering they’re in the playoffs every year).
What Pat’s challenge boils down to, in my opinion, is for teams to find both the talent and the coaching that MUC has. It’s no easy task. But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: outside of Garcon’s speed, I thought that UWW was probably just as talented as MUC. The difference is that Kehres, et al are superior coaches to just about everyone.
The challenge, then, is to build a talented team with a coaching staff that can equal that of the Purple Raiders. It’s no easy task, particularly at the DIII level, with small budgets and less noteriety. I believe that it can be done, though.
One nice thing about having a dynasty such as MUC is the sense of great joy and accomplishment that comes from beating them. It’s been done. Ohio Northern did it. UMHB did it. St. John’s did it, decisively (but for a horrible call, in a Monkey Stomp!). Rowan did it, though the Profs’ sense of accomplishment was probably taken too far, given the result the next week.
Things would be worse if the Raiders had one every title in this period. But the fact that they haven’t, and the competitiveness of the West Region, in particular, gives me hope that the 2007 season and beyond will not likely be a coronation for MUC.
WiWarhawk…
got any other excuses youd like to throw out there…I dont think your own team and other fans would offer up the lame excuses you do..MUC could have taken every team in your bracket, the same way they took you…and I think Capital and SJf might have a slight disagreement with your opinion of MUC’s road to the title…not that it matters really…because they havent done it once, theyve done it 9 TIMES!!! if you dont think MUC couldnt have taken Wesley and everyone else in your bracket, and then UWW, youre crazy…and you right…you are rambling…incoherently…you want to see someone else win…like Pat said, step up your game…Ive enver heard anything as dumb on this site as someone suggesting changing the format of the playoffs so it can be easier for someone else to win…do you really feel that the other DIII teams need such baby like treatment…”boo-hoo…we can’t win with these rules”…please….
Oops. By “coronation,” I meant “mere coronation,” as in a formality.
After having attended the Stagg Bowl 9 (2005) years after I stopped playing, I still was amazed by the entire Stagg Bowl scene. Years after playing, all I could think about was how cool/fun/amazing it would have been to have played in that game.
That being said, I think it would be a great idea for college coaches to strongly encourage their players to attend the Stagg Bowl. You could even go as far as to raise funds for a bus ride out there. But, at the very least it’s just an good, old fashioned road trip. I understand there are issues with all of my suggestions (West Coast players driving to the Stagg Bowl, limited funds for both students and institutions, etc.).
However, I can’t imagine that any current player would not be totally inspired by being there. Not only by the scene, but, by the level of football that is played in that bowl. In other words, seeing what it takes.
And those guys still have a chance to train, improve, and most importanly….play.
At the very least, go to an in-region playoff game. I remember seeing MUC beat UW-Lacrosse at Camp Randall (UW-Madison) AFTER my senior season. My team and I could have benefitted greatly from going to a playoff game before that, but, I am not going to go all woulda/coulda/shoulda on you.
And on a side note, that game is why I have never and never will hate on MUC. They had a ton of fans in the stands, 50 (maybe older) year old guys doing push-ups with the cheerleaders, and after the game the players shook hands and then all the MUC players went and jumped in a huge snowbank on the sidelines. And it wasn’t even a “in your face” deal. They were just enjoying the moment.
Now, that’s what I call understanding the game.
Wow! Use a rule change to try to unseat the National Champion! Did I read that right? When that happens we will know that the “sport” has gone out of college sports. No less than 15 attempts were made to unseat last years National Champions. All failed. Why blame MUC for those other teams shortcommings? Thats like saying……Jimmy, you are much better than the other kids, you win all the time. You cant play anymore! Its damaging to the other kids self esteems. PLEEEEEZE! Watch Jimmy excell, then LEARN how to excell too. Some teams have already taken notice and started bettering their staffs, facilities,and players. It will pay off soon enough for someone. Until then just be happy for MUC because they represnt the NCAA and D3 very well. Their credibility spills over on all of D3. Hey UWW, SJF, CAP, WHEATON and HOPE….be proud you made the playoffs and lost to the best. You now know what you have to do to play for a championship. Get busy and work for it while the whiners are busy trying to scheme and scam their way to success.
Oh, good grief. Enough with the excuses. If you don’t want Mount Union to win, there is one thing you can do. Want to guess what that is? Try beating them!
The whole “weak region” thing is a joke and I am tired of hearing about the number of ranked teams a team has played on the way, or that the WIAC is definitely the top conference from top to bottom. UWW has had two chances to win against them in the Stagg Bowl, two other opportunities in the regular season (1 at UWW) and the same result every time. Also, I never see a NAIA team on Mount Union’s schedule, same goes for the other OAC schools. They don’t need to schedule Azusa Pacific (or in this area, Malone). Enough whining. They have regions for a reason and seem very unlikely to ship more than 1 or 2 out of their native region.
Suggesting to stack the region intentionally to try to keep a team out is blatantly ludicrous. Period. No way to argue for that so spare me the lame song and dance routine. If you want another champion and you have to go through Mount Union, then beat them. So rather than chat away, hit the weight room and hit the practice field. Are we clear? Good luck.
This “best conference” chatter is the same stuff we have heard from the SEC for years. As long as they tell themselves that, they believe it. Mount Union beat Capital twice this season, and they finished #3 in the country. Hmmm. Their conference usually has more than two teams finish in the Top 25, though this year it was two, with Ohio Northern and Marietta not far out (and these teams are 6-4, which says a lot to be ranked that highly). Baldwin-Wallace is always tough and until the past couple of years, John Carroll used to be very, very good. They were shipped to the East a few seasons ago and I believe finished in the quarterfinals (or was it semifinals?). I do recall some of the D3 people here that they squeaked by some games, one in overtime, but the neat thing is, they won. Period. That’s all that matters. The OAC is a tough conference and there are plenty of strong teams in the conferences in the North region. Funny thing about the WIAC, you only see two teams. Like there are bottom feeders in the OAC, there are bottom feeders in the WIAC Eau Claire, Stout, River Falls all 3-7 and this is an 8-team conference. Is the WIAC the best, some say yes, some say no. You can throw out all the documented and ridiculously useless statistics you wish, but the bottom line is when it has counted the most, the OAC has come out on top.
WIWarhawk
So, just to make sure we understand what you are saying: Mount beats #2 WW, #3 Capital and #4 SJF. And you think they had the easiest draw in the tourney? What am I missing? WW didn’t beat anyone in the top 4. Mount beats three in the top four. Sorry, can’t buy that logic.
Ehh, any chance those teams are in the top four because they played Mount Union? I think that’s a chicken-egg thing.
I’d say they are in the top four…because they are the top four teams in the country. I have no idea whether WW would have beat Capital & SJF. But we do know that Mount beat them, along with WW. So I’m struggling to figure out how their road to Salem was easier than WW’s.
I say Congrats to MUC always! They are a fantastic dynasty that I don’t mind seeing win. I think parity at that top level would also be great, but…we are witnessing a dynasty here that in my opinion represents some of the most pure thinks in sports today: class, heart, hard work, commitment, coaching, and academics! There is no money, special treatment, or really even a opportunity at making this sport professionally for these kids. To me, this is a great dynasty and I will enjoy it as long as it lasts. I am not even a MUC fan and I can see how special this all is.
Just a couple of things here.
It does disturb me that Mt Union is the powerhouse that it is, but the only way to stop that is for someone to beat them. We have failed the past two years, it sucks, but that’s the way it is right now. I’d still like another shot at them. They are a class act, though, I’m sure after christmas break they’re gonna be right after a tenth title, if not now.
As far as arguing about which conference is better, it’s a matter of opinion, both the OAC and WIAC have very good teams, it’s not something that I want to argue about because in the end, it really doesn’t matter except in the playoffs and even then they are in seperate regions, and are both the strongest conferences in those regions.
I can understand where WiWarhawk is coming from, I don’t think that he meant the NCAA should stack numbers 1-8 in the same regional brackett or whatever. What I think he meant was that there is some discrepency in the strength of each brackett. What I think he was trying to say was to set up something like march madness where the top four teams all get #1 seeds, the next four get #2 seeds, etc… I agree with him that this is a good idea and I would venture to say that most of you out there would agree with me. However, I think most of us also realize that this is just not going to happen because of D3’s economic situation.
As far as someone SEEMED to imply that UWW was scheduling Azusa so they could get an easier schedule, that is simply not true. Someone, backed out of playing against us last spring and Azusa was available, so we scheduled them. (someone that is informed please correct me if I’m wrong)
AAGGGHHH!!! I have lurked on this site for a few years, but the whining about Mt Union is really getting out of hand… I grew up six blocks away from MUC’s campus and used to go to the games with my buddies on our bikes. I remember Mount falling just short (every time) back in the 80’s to either B-W or Augustana. It hurt, but they learned from it and grew. (I went to ONU and Kent State for disclosure purposes)
I have seen the last six Stagg Bowls in person due to my proximity to Salem – Mount or no Mount. I have sat on the “other side” (accidentally, of course) a couple of times with mixed results. Regardless, a good to great game everytime – even when St John’s beat Mount.
WiWarhawk, enough with the excuses for the “Why” the Warhawks lost to Mount due to a “tougher” regular / playoff schedules and the like. UWW played a tight game – a few plays switched would have made this game a lot closer than it ended up. UWW had nothing to make excuses about and you shouldn’t try to for them. They got beat by a superior team that day.
Which is, as they say, the reason we play the game.
Go Mount!
Ha! Welcome to the storm I guess. I appreciate your comments, but also need to clarify that your responding to intentions that don’t exist.
First: Do I believe that MUC was the better team on Saturday…yes, I do. Clearly, MUC was the better team. So, sorry everyone…I am not giving any excuses for the lack of excellent play on the WW squad.
Second: Is there a precedent for changing the format in the way championships are made? Yes….BCS anyone? Eventually DI will move to a playoff format, so at that point MUCnash and OhioFootball, are you going to be against it simply for the sake of NOT changing?
Third: mainjack – You need to look at the rankings before the playoffs…Wesley was ranked number 3 before WW knocked them out. and SJF was not even in the top 15. It’s easy to look at how the chips fall and then make a decision. UWW did beat a top 4 team WHEN they were ranked as such. Not when all is said and done.
So, go ahead everyone. Crucify me for defending my opinions. I would appreciate it however (ohiofottball) if you leave the personal comments out and keep it to the opinions. Again…MUC was clearly the better team and I even was rooting for MUC to break the NCAA Win streak. I even ordered an MUC hat when they did so. I’ll even go so far as to say that the OAC is a bit better than the WIAC. However, the WIAC is a damn tough conference as well. So, it’s not like i am personally upset at MUC…but like any dynasty that lasts forever, it gets old. The same would go for UWW if that ever happened.
Now let me get some shelter while the lightning bolts shoot down. 🙂
Who will coach UW-W next year? They will be strong again as will be MUC, and UMHB. Wesley will not be as strong nor will W&J.
Does UW-W play UMHB next year? If so, I hope it’s early before the cold sets in….. UMHB needs their own stadium (Fredenberg stated this in the local paper a few weeks ago) for recruiting and for ownership. I know we just sunk $400,000 in the High School field and it seats like 9,000. However, UMHB is a powerhouse every year and usually ranked in the top 5. C’mon someone write that check because the CRU deserves their OWN stadium.
The only reason you are for changing the format is because Mount keeps winning in the current format…if Mount wasnt hoisting the trophy nine times you’d be fine with it…If you wanted to change the format because you truly wanted a more fair system for all teams, that would be one thing..you want to change the format to attempt (which is the key word in this whole discussion) to sandbag the team that keeps outplaying everyone…you dont like the outcome so you change the rules…its not change for the sake of change…its change because you keep losing…if D1 ever went to a playoff system, it would make it more fair for all teams..not a rule change aimed at one particular program as you suggested…but really, I’ll be honest…take whatever rules you want…set it up however you think is fair…MUC would have still won number #9….take any of the teams in any combination…this years team was good enough to beat them all….its the sportsmanship of the idea that we change the rules to stop that big bully Mount Union from beating up on us…its just silly…
^^^^^^^
UMHB should schedule MUC and UW-W next year just to see where they are. I believe we return 8 on offense and 7 and defense.
U-Dub-Dub,
First off, how’s your roomie handling the defeat? Secondly, I think everyone would love to see a “level playing field” but that’s just not in the cards. It is extremely expensive to fly a plane every weekend on a budget that is tight due to… and I hate this… lack of funds because the NCAA does not market the games. If there were TV contracts for the entire playoffs and someone was interested in paying the bucks things could change, but I don’t (personally) think that will happen.
But such is life.
Purple,
I think we would all love to see some of the top 10 teams play more than just those on their conference schedules but these schedules are generally set years in advance and, by that point, the school may not be the super power they were this year. And you have situations like a certain school we all know about that generally schedules cake walks for their non-conf schedule for whatever reason and still have to play a full conference schedule. I can’t speak for the conferences that come to mind but I would find it hard to imagine that the OAC and MIAC would look too highly on some of their teams playing truncated conference schedules so they could get to those high profile programs.
But I am (again personally) looking forward to the Home-Home matchup between MUC and SJF in the near future.
I think I recall Fredenburg and Berezowitz saying it was a home and home.
The UWW coordinators have been there 13 and 16 years. I would not be shocked if one of them is ultimately the next coach.
I think Wesley will still be pretty good next year. They were developing some young talent, and their QB has been in the offense as a WR, so maybe that will speed the transition.
Anyway, I wrote some opuses on this very topic different places around the board recently. I was definitely in the ‘I’m getting bored with Mount Union winning it all the time’ camp for a while.
As long as we have the drama, where you honestly believe there’s a chance MUC can be beaten (and they were in ’05, in the regular season), then it’s not necessarily boring. I definitely thought after the St. John’s and Linfield titles that the division was wide open in ’05. I pretty much pegged ’06 for an MUC-UWW rematch, but it wasn’t until the third quarter of the Stagg Bowl that we knew for sure MUC was the better team.
That’s good enough for me. As long as MUC’s dominance doesn’t completely sap the drama, I am OK with it.
It may completely sap the drama next year though.
Thing is, a lot has to go right for a team to win. What if certain guys can’t stay healthy? What if someone catches them on a bad day, going right at their weakness?
In a way, it’s definitely a shame if you’re from Capital that you know you could have beaten Mount Union, you just didn’t. Same for some other teams.
But that’s where what Pat said comes in … in a way, you have to at least appreciate what you’re seeing. One of the all-time greats here.
Trust me, I could live with a little more drama instead of penciling MUC into the semis each year, but as long as they play 2-4 tough games against elite teams that have a shot at beating them, I can get through the season.
Here’s one of the things I said elsewhere on the similar topic:
“I’ll even go so far as to say that the OAC is a bit better than the WIAC.”
They’re 1-2, but every time we do the research (out of conf. record, depth of conference, NFL pedigree, etc.) the WIAC comes out No. 1.
Mount Union is better than UW-W, but give me River Falls by 20 over Heidelberg, etc.
“Mt. Union’s trip to the Stagg Bowl was cake compared to UWW’s.”
Hope — St. Norbert
Wheaton — UW-LaCrosse
Capital — St. John’s
St. John Fisher — Wesley
Stagg Bowl
They look pretty similar to me, actually. Lax was a bit better than Wheaton, and the North was by no means a stronger overall bracket than the West … but “cake” is so hyperbolic I probably shouldn’t even have responded.
“They are a class act, though, I’m sure after christmas break they’re gonna be right after a tenth title, if not now.”
Larry contends that the Stagg Bowl puts his staff five weeks behind in recruiting. And he is dead serious.
He is obviously not complaining, as he knows he also gets five extra weeks to “coach up” his players most years, and all the playoff exposure and the chance to win championships are big factors in getting good players.
But it shows you how focused he is, and that rubs off on his staff.
Right now they think Baldwin-Wallace, John Carroll and Ohio Northern are going to get all the good, smart players unless they recruit their tails off.
Just another reason why it’s easy to dislike MUC on the surface, but harder to once you get to know what they’re all about. These guys honestly believe they have to outwork the other guys to win it next year.
I will say one more thing on this issue.
The D3 season does become like two, or maybe even three seasons. There’s the regular season/playoff chase, there’s the first two rounds of the playoffs where the good-but-not-elite teams get weeded out, and then there’s the round of 8, where the Stagg Bowl contenders take their shots.
If you look at it this way, you might find the same excitement I do in watching, say, Rowan battle Cortland State for a playoff spot, then watching Carnegie Mellon get further than it had in years, then watching the Stagg Bowl.
Basically, man, enjoy the journey to the top as well as the view from the summit.
We almost never write stories about Mount Union or some of the other elite teams until the playoffs because we suspect, and are usually right, about them ending up there.
And in a way that would seem boring … but by the same token, our system offers everyone the chance to settle it on the field, so you know as a player, if you didn’t win it, it was something you or your team didn’t do, but nobody robbed you of your shot at winning it all.
As a competitor, all you really can hope for is a chance to prove it on the field.
And we have that.
MUCnash: The only reason you are for changing the format is because Mount keeps winning in the current format…
Buddy…did you read the part of my post where I said that “the same would go for UWW if that ever happened”? Besides, couldn’t the same arguement be said about why you think it’s a crazy idea to adjust the format? When MUC is losing, I look forward to reading your posts on this website. 🙂
“if Mount wasnt hoisting the trophy nine times you’d be fine with it…”
Now this statement is actually true. If it was like the NFL where I can watch different teams win year in and year out, then that’d be great.
Read my initial post…I said that the same victors year after year isn’t good business at any level. In no way would I condone changing the rules for one team to benifit another single team. That’s just stupid. Not only that, it’s crazy to think that I would suggest it to benifit UWW. I sincerely doubt that they wil advance beyond the quarters next year. They will lose to UWL in the regular season, since the reg season game is at UWL and UWL hates UWW. They’re also losing enough to make another rematch almost impossible. So, to think that I have sour grapes is a non-issue.
Just a quick not on the UWW coaching position. Offensive coordinator Stan Zweifel is one of the candidates for head coach. Others include Rick Willis (AD @ Wartburg), Curt Weise (Head Coach @ Marietta), and Lance Leipold (Offensive Coordinator @ Nebraska-Omaha). Popular opinion pegs Zweifel as the favorite.
Sorry…forgot to proofread…a quick note* as opposed to a quick not…
It ain’t boring if you’re the team playing MUC!
UWWRunner – I also recall Ken Wable quiting at Mount in 1985 and his O-coordinator taking over for him. We all were a little worried in Mount being able to maintain its momentum at that time. It took him a few years, but LK did OK… Berezowitz has set whoever up with a very nice place to start from.
A couple of things on Wesley… First, Wesley’s defense only loses two. One being Mario Harris at Safety, which is huge. The loss of Warrick on offense will be filled by more run heavy offense in the early season to give the next QB a chance to get his footing. I look for Wesley to challenge for the South Region again, most likely against UMHB who could have an incredible year. Second… as far as ranking Wesley as low as 6 or 8 in the end of this year is solely based on the performance of one person in one game. If we do that, then we should put UW-W down a bit based on Jacobs performance. Honestly, that shouldn’t happen. UW-W is unquestionably #2. By putting other teams in front of Wesley, such as St. John’s (MN) after losing to both UW-W and Bethel is unfounded, just because they had a good game in the playoffs. Wesley only stumbled once, in the National Semifinals of all places.
very funny dedragon…if saint johns played wesley…they would KILL wesley…the wesley against whitewater was 44-7…st. johns against whitewater was 17-14…am i missing something?
Ok, here is my final say on this.
1. I neither implied nor stated that I would be against the playoff format changing. Blatantly false statement by warhawk.
Honestly, I would love to see it changed. How? By including teams from multiple regions in each bracket. Maybe 2 from each region per 4 brackets. However you want to do it would be great. UWW is a fantastic team, as is La Crosse. Both would do outstanding in other regions and certainly be legitimate threats to win the regions. Same goes for other schools in other conferences. The tough part about getting these changes done is for all parties involved to work together to make it happen. It will not be easy, but I would definitely like some “tweaking” to be done.
2. The very weak argument from Pat Coleman: “Ehh, any chance those teams are in the top four because they played Mount Union? I think that’s a chicken-egg thing.”
Wow, you’re kidding, right? Do you think some other factors may also be involved? Including:
1. The records of these teams (outside of their performance against Mount Union), conference titles or runner-up positions. What happened to your conference power strength statistics? Hmmm.
2. You could say the same thing about UW-Whitewater (notice who is #5, #6, and #7).
3. Chicken and the egg? Probably not the best analogy to make here. These teams were already highly ranked during the season and it is no surprise they are where they at now that the season has concluded.
If you want to try to present the truth, try for the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
3. The post from WiWarhawk:
“Read my initial post…I said that the same victors year after year isn’t good business at any level.”
Again, blatantly incorrect. What business are you talking about here? Business in Salem, the product of D3 football, each D3 school? What? First, I could go through a long list of very dominant teams in men’s and women’s college and professional sports (some of which have been discussed in previous threads. The “business” has not been hurt for any of the sports, schools, franchises, or cities involved. Mount Union has helped put D3 football into the spotlight. D3 gets very little attention at all, but thanks in large part to Mount Union, it has received attention and helped to spread awareness of such a great level of competition. Part of the fun of having a dominant team is that their opponent is usually very psyched to play them with hopes of beating them. Plus, to further dispel the “bad business” bull, as teams work to improve to try to emulate the success of Mount Union (which UWW has clearly stated they have been doing), it improves the product of D3 football. Teams get better and better, the competition improves, and more and more fan support comes with it. It may still be difficult to beat Mount Union, but you cannot fault teams for working hard during the season and offseason to try to beat them. The product is getting better, so get a clue.
As has been said before, if you don’t want a team to win a national championship or conference championship, etc., there is one thing you can do to settle the argument without whining about it here. Beat them on the field (or court, rink, whatever, depending on the sport :))! Mount Union is not invincible. Just ask SJU, Ohio Northern, and Mary Hardin-Baylor. It can be done. You just have to earn it on the field.
Case closed. Good luck to all teams next season!
dedragon…what are you smokin? Do you sell the stuff too? Jeez after two monkey stomps at the hands of UWW and SJU’s major improvement against them this past year(3 turnovers compared to 7)…I think that says enough…They play big boy football in the WEST, everyone knew whoever won the west region was getting a free pass to the Stagg Bowl after it was learned you had won against MHB…
St. John’s has problems finding teams to play…how about this, ask your coach to call SJU, to set up a game, in fact its been rumored that SJU would gladly help with travel expenses if you would like to come see the beauty of Collegeville on a September Saturday…
SJU will be one of the favorites in the West next year with a Sr quarterback, most of the offensive line back including All-American center Andrew Salvato, much of their defense back and a host of young talent just waiting to get on the field…its just a matter of re-loading
UMHB plays Oct. 27 @ UWW. The Crusaders lose 10 players off of their 54 man play-off roster. The CRU only had 11 seniors on their full roster. On offense they lose 1 starter @ WR, Padron (back-up QB) and Freddy Rollins (back-up RB) plus Punter (All-American) and placekicker (All American). On defense they lose both starting tackles, a LB, Josh Kubiak (safety All American and biggest loss) and back-up strong safety. Also of note, CRU JV finished 8-0 in 06. Could 07 be the YEAR OF THE CRU?
D-3…. NCAA; add 11th game…teams have bye week, maybe conference challenge, that way the NO-names would have a opportunity to upset the Mt. UNIONS of the football world. Sounds to simple/easy. All challenges/opinions should be left on the field of battle. FRANKLIN GRIZZLIES (9-1); left out on THE ROAD TO THE SALEM!
D-3…. NCAA; add 11th game…teams have bye week, maybe conference challenge, that way the NO-names would have a opportunity to upset the Mt. UNIONS of the football world. Sounds to simple/easy. All challenges/opinions should be left on the field of battle. FRANKLIN GRIZZLIES (9-1); left out on THE ROAD TO SALEM!
bottom line is Warhawk..set it up however you like…
it doesnt matter..the best teams will find a way to get it done…
and there will come a day when MUC is not winning the way they are now..and when that day comes, it will be because someone outworked them…and I wont have a problem with it…so dont be so smug with your post there, like you already know Im a big crybaby….every Mount fan has to know that there will come a day when this will end…are you for changing the format b/c you think its more fair to all teams, or because you just want to be entertained…
And no…the same argument could not be used, b/c I think Mount could win in any format..
Ohiofootball: Are you seriously telling me that St. John Fisher would’ve leapt from No. 16 to No. 4 without playing Mount Union and putting in a decent showing? That’s what I’m talking about.
Without that, I would project them somewhere down in the 8-10 range. They played No. 22, No. 15 and No. 11 to get to Alliance. Without the game against Mount Union they are nowhere near the top four.
Pat, if that is what you meant, then yes, I understand what you are saying about SJF. Of course, this is the post you responded to and your reply never stated SJF. Word massaging after the fact does little to bolster any perceived argument:
mainjack Says:
The 20th of December, 2006 at 9:27 pm
WIWarhawk
“So, just to make sure we understand what you are saying: Mount beats #2 WW, #3 Capital and #4 SJF. And you think they had the easiest draw in the tourney? What am I missing? WW didn’t beat anyone in the top 4. Mount beats three in the top four. Sorry, can’t buy that logic. ”
I don’t vote for these teams, so don’t blame me. When it comes down to the bottom line, the final rankings mean very little to a team unless they finish #1 or are ranked for the first time in school history or in a very long time. Not long from now, no one will care! Tell me, without cheating, who finished #5 in the polls in 2001. How about #9 or #11 or #18? You don’t know off the top of your head, do you? Why, because no one remembers and no one cares. If you want to debate this topic even further, you could propose each team play each other on a neutral site or something. I am done bickering over something so pointless.
dedragon:
Give us a break.
Wesley didn’t just “stumble”, it peed down its leg or, using a phrase I think I learned from our esteemed moderator “crapped the bed.”
Again.
It was 58-6 last season and easily could have been 66-zip this season.
Folks can say “It’s the matchups, it’s the matchups” over and over but tell me dedragon, how many times did Wesley even cross midfield?
VOJ,
I talked to two assistants at two IIAC schools this fall about playing SJU in a future year. One of them laughed and said, “There’s no way in [mild expletive] Jim would schedule us.” To say that they cannot find high profile opponents is like the school bully sitting alone on his front house because all his “friends” aren’t willing to give him the time of day.
I’d love to see Linfield or MUC or SJF or someone like that make the trip in to Collegeville, outside of the expected (by me) victory in the Bethel/SJU game, that might be a game worth making the drive for.
It’s not about the money, but the impression left on the other schools. At least according to two IIAC assistant coaches.
You’re missing the point. I wasn’t defending the way Wesley played in that game. It was obvious that Wesley didn’t belong on the field THAT day. My point is that if you judge one game, then you must also judge that other teams were defeated on TWO occassions. Your misguided interpretations were fueled by passion for Johnny Football and good for you. But, the fact remains is that Wesley only lost one game this year, all be it badly. How did your 4th ranked Johnnies lose to the 17th ranked Royals by two TD’s?
I agree with Pat except for one comment….. that it is getting a little boring….not at all. Trying to unseat Mount Union is an awesome task and could be harder next year than it was the last two years. The Warhawks felt that they were a better team this year but the Purple Raiders improved more. This struggle I believe is anything but boring…..teams must game plan to stop the numerous weapons Mount Union has and be cognizant that their legendary coach will change formations, plays , and philosophy to keep his opponent off balance. In the last two years our team has been a solid second best and unfortunately not played all that well in the Stagg Bowl but in talking with a few of our seniors after this game they attribute quite a bit of our poor performance to Mount Union’s excellence. I believe next year Mount Union will be there unless key players are injured and they will be even a better team…….I hope the Warhawks will be there again and if they are I will be there and I won’t be even a little bored…….
Pat, my roomate is handling the loss OK, I think the initial reaction on Saturday and Sunday was to be expected. He does want to thank you guys though for putting him on the All-region team when he wasn’t nominated by the coaches 😉
I completely understand that a playoff system as I suggested will probably not happen, maybe in a perfect world, but then again in a perfect world, we probably wouldn’t need this thread.
As far as the new coach at Whitewater goes: I don’t think that Rick Willis was very good in his public forum, just wasn’t convincing enough as I saw it, his chances, I think are the lowest out of the four. Curt Wiese, from Marrietta, I think was very good yesterday, confident, didn’t skirt any questions and has a good system as far as academics and recruiting. I’d say he’ll be the guy right behind Stan. Lance Leipold is up later this afternoon, I haven’t heard anything about him withdrawing his name from any reliable sources (only on post patterns).
Zweifel is definatly still the popular choice out here, and our AD knows it. Though with Jagodzinski getting the job at BC I think that if Z doesn’t get this job, he’ll head out there, which would be pretty cool. He has been the one doing alot of recruiting the past few years, and is the reason we have alot of the talent we do, so it would be very tough to see him go.
As the old saying goes, this too shall pass.
Hobart went on quite a run from 1980-1994 winning 13 D3 lacrosse championships in 14 years (which IMO is a better comparison than the MUC/UCLA dynasty comments being bandied about on this site. Sure both squads were dominant, but UCLA had the 1960’s, the city of Los Angeles and scholarships to entice the absolutely best HS BB players in the country to go there. Hobart and MUC are small schools in tiny college towns in the middle of no-where that developed winning traditions with “true” student athletes).
MUC is having a great run right now, but I’d be surprised if it keeps going on into perpetuity (and fortunately I doubt MUC’s administration or the NCAA will change the rules of play in D3 FB making MUC consider going up divisions).
Besides, if you watched the Stagg, most fans would probably agree that Kehres didn’t out coach Bereowitz – UWW lost that game by not playing well (UWW’s QB really came up short) and allowing MUC to capitalize on UWW’s mistakes (like the UWW WRs regularly getting behind the MUC DBs only to see sure TD passes fly over their heads; and the punt block).
Still, I can’t really fault MUC for this since championship caliber teams typically make their opponents pay for their mistakes.
I think the rest of the pack is catching up to MUC. The fact that young SJF football program (only 20 yrs in the making) from the “weak East Region” was able to play with MUC for most of the game is a good indication of this fact. It’s just going to take another couple of years, but all sports dynasties eventually come to an end.
Not sure lacrosse is a great comparison — there are many fewer lacrosse teams and the field to beat is therefore much smaller.
i believe mount and UWW play in the regular season in 2008, don’t they?
Hobart lacrosse is also not a good example since they made the move to Division I in 1995, only two years after winning their 13th Div. III title in 15 tries. The team they lost to in the 1994 finals, Salisbury, went on to win five more titles. There have been only six teams that have won Div. III lacrosse titles in 27-year history of the championship (Hobart 13, Salisbury 6, Middlebury 3, Nazareth 3, Washington (Md.) 1, Cortland 1). If Hobart remained a Div. III school in lacrosse, that number would probably be lower.