It’s hard to keep from pondering that if the NCAA had put UW-Whitewater in the North and Lakeland in the West (remember, Whitewater is closer geographically to the rest of the North bracket than Lakeland is!) then we could have seen UW-Whitewater/Mount Union today and UW-Whitewater/Linfield next week.
Thank goodness there was a competitive game today. Rowan did alright by the East in this one. Should be a good crowd in Salem. Looking forward to that one.
Congrats to Mount Union and UW-Whitewater. Fans, you should know that the Stagg Bowl organizing committee is sponsoring giveaway of a free hotel night and admission to the game. On Friday there’s a luncheon for the teams at the Salem Civic Center that you can purchase tickets to. You should find out which team is in which hotel if you are traveling so you can figure out whether you want to stay in the Clarion or the Wyndham (one team will stay in each, though there are many other hotels to choose from as well, check the Stagg Bowl Web site).
Pat Cummings, Keith McMillan and I will have a live audio broadcast of the game, with Gordon Mann and I handling pregame, halftime and postgame festivities. We start two hours before the game kicks off, and our pregame show will include the first announcement of the D3football.com All-America team. We’ll also carry it through the postgame news conferences and give you our final thoughts on the 2005 season, probably running at least an hour after the games end. So if you want to hear what your team and coaches have to say, tune to us.
We’ll also do photo galleries from the week, including the luncheon and team activities, as well as the game.
Enjoy the week. Post responsibly.
Pat
should I paste my pros and cons of private and state schools ideas here from my post in the ODAC Reply #4566 ?
Pat
On second Thought maybe that should have it’s own start.
mt union’s facilities def benefited from winning a few games in a row and a few national champs
but that can be said for any program at any level
actually now that i think about it my dad was showing me his yearbook from 81 and the pics of the stadium arn’t very impressive…and the upgrades have only come in the last 5 years
Also,
the suggestion to move Mount to I-AA … not sure why any school would move “up” unless it was trying to expand its overall enrollment. Division III is likely more cost-effective than all but the best Division I-As who can depend on a steady attendance at six home games a year to fund athletics.
The thing about going I-AA is that all your sports would have to go I-AA, I believe. I know there are exceptions for playing up, like Johns Hopkins lacross and RPI hockey, but I can’t think of a football example. Seems like Mount Union has a good thing going on in the OAC, where the league champion appears to be competitive on a national level no matter the sport, and it’s not like Mount dominates in other sports. The travel is reasonable, the OAC schools are similar academically and price-wise I believe, which creates a pretty even playing field for recruiting across all sports (and if you ask coach Kehres, playing so deep into the season puts MUC behind the recruiting 8Ball. I’m sure it’s not a major complaint and he would much rather be winning championships, but that’s a legitimate concern … the flipside is that the extra games mean half a season’s worth of extra reps in practice for the backups and developing players, etc.)
HS coach, one more thing you need to understand about Rowan … it would help if you knew something about South Jersey. The state as a whole is basically a whole bunch of working-class or well-off suburban schools where the athletic competition, catholic schools that can recruit included, is fierce … and then at the college level, there is not much to serve the student-athlete population that wants to move on and continue to play. Football-wise, there is I-A Rutgers and zero Division I-AA or IIs of consequence. That’s why if you look at the Big Ten, ACC and Big East rosters, they’re all always littered with NJ players … even the Big 12 sometimes. Then after the cream of the crop is raided by schools from other states, that other level of talent pretty much has state schools to choose from. New Jersey is not a big state, but Rowan is the only Division III football school in South Jersey, unless you count Trenton as south … so basically, there’s the tradition of success just a cut below Mount Union, there’s the state-school price and the lack of other nearby schools having an edge at attracting those kids. A lot of them play elsewhere in the NJAC, in the MAC or at places like Wesley, but Rowan often has the pick of the litter. Unlike a state like Ohio, which has Akron, Kent, Dayton and perhaps even Cincinnati in its pre-Big East days recruiting the same kids the good D3s go after, or a state like Virginia, where the D3s battle Richmond, William & Mary, James Madison, Liberty, Hampton et. al., it’s pretty much either 1. good enough to go anywhere 2. Penn State. 3. Rutgers/Lehigh 4. Rowan 5. rest of the NJAC/MAC/ACFC.
(Wisconsin is similiar in that you go to Madison and/or any school you want, or you go to one of the UWs. There’s not a big pocket of I-AAs, IIs or NAIAs out there because their network of state schools serves that need.)
Those are the advantages, not the $100 million endowment or the enrollment. Many of those kids, my cousins at least, live at home and go to Rowan like it’s a commuter school anyway, so I’d have to agree with Pat … the overall enrollment is a misleading figure. It may be an indicator of institutional health/ability to support the program, but other than that, the advantages/disadvantages are the same ones faced elsewhere in Division III recruiting.
Man, I cannot write short for the life of me …
Anyone who is complaining about a few WW fans being arrogant needs to go read the OAC thread.
D3Keith,
Good Post. One small correction though. There is no such thing as D-IAA in any other sport than football. If you play I-AA in football, then you play D-I in all other sports.
Not looking to start anything, just pointing out that under closer scrutiny, the arrogant accusation can be applied to both sides.
AGIAN
UW Whitewater 35 (at least)
Mt. Onion 21 (at most)
SeanGOP
Aren’t you the Augustana fan?
SeanGOP- You wrote yesterday that you were sick of Bigmucfan and all of his “blah blah blah I’m great” crap. Well, that’s the only kind of stuff you are writing. You’ve contributed nothing worth reading either.
d3Keith, with regards to football in Wisconsin, one can explain it with a riddle.
Name the only non-D3 NCAA football program in the state of Wisconsin. Hint: Their mascot is the Badgers.
IMHO, the biggest “8” reasons that the WIAC has strong football programs are the lack any football programs at public universities in that state.
Look at Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas or the schools in the Deep South. There are numerous outstanding programs in D1AA or D2 that frequently have NFL calibre talent. Those schools are brimming with players who would dominate in D3.
Were Wisconsin to focus its D1AA/D2 calibre talent into 2 state schools and/or were Marquette to resurrect a glorious football tradition rather than diffusing it among the WIAC, CCIW, MWC and IBFC, the talent in that state would make that D1AA/D2 school a national power.
Yes I am an Augustana fan / alum, but I also have recognized for years the quality of the WIAC – especially this year and the dominating UWW team.
raidergal,
I can appreciate your concern, however I have read so many of bigmucfan’s dribble that I could handle no more of it. Since I have been so critical, his tone has shifted to one of fact and logic. I am greatful for that, as I am sure are all the other readers.
As far as not contributing – hah.
If you would like to see how your team measures up, then I suggest you check out the Massey Ratings. Check the link below.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&sub=III&mid=6
It is dead on. Check out the conference ratings Mt. Onion fans. It takes depth to be #1.
I have been a d3football.com regular for sometime and a daily visitor of the sight during this entire season. I have read every post since the playoffs began and have simply sat back and kept my opinions to myself. However, I would now like to put my two cents concerning the posts about the weakness of the east, the dominance of Rowan in this region, and that Rowan is the only DIII alterative for Jersey born athletes. As an Ithaca alum, I find it hard to believe that IC’s football program has been overlooked in much of this discussion. The Bombers have one of the more storied programs in the history of DIII football. Some of IC’s resume includes 3 national championships (surpassed only by Augustana and Mount Union); 7 trips to the Stagg Bowl; 27-11 record in 38 playoff games; and the 4th best winning percentage in all off DIII (.643). How can the East region be tagged as weak when 2 of the best programs in the country, Rowan and IC, are from the East?
Also, Keith… if my memory serves me correctly… back in the late 80s, early 90’s IC was a very popular alternative for Jersey born DIII athletes, not only in football, but all sports. It also seems to be a choice these days.. as at least 10 kids on the team this year are from Jersey. Obviously Rowan is the first choice, but there is a solid DIII program in the area that serves as a good choice for Jersey kids.
A Family Friend of mine is the Head Coach at Northern Illinios University and I have noticed and influx of WI players on their roster over the past 5 years or so. 18 on the roster for 2005 and 9 of them were on the two-deep roster for the MAC Championship Game.
SeanGop
Are you going to the game?
SeanGOP
No matter what happens this saturday. I will still be a Raiders Fan, Not someone who jumps on the coat tails of another program because his beloved team had their butts beat by the team that stole their glory away. Augustana was a great program during their 5 year run of 5 Stagg Bowls in a row, with 4 victories. At the time you were the team all other D3 schools wanted to be like. Now that GLORY belongs to us and it bothers you. Now you don’t hear me talking trash about Augustana, WW or any other team for that matter. We respect every team we play. Always have and always will!
mainjack,
you are absolutely correct … which means if Mount went I-AA in football, it would likely have to go Division I in everything else. Which strengthens my point, so thanks. 🙂
Brett Elliot Player of year???, Beaver should have gotten it. In final 5 minutes He had ball twice against UWW and couldn’t get one first down. I mean come one. His team had a chance to upset maybe the best team ever in Div 3 and he can’t throw for a first down and run out the clock. Heck his defense held UWW to 44 points giving his team a chance to win. Have to give it to best player on best team and thats Beaver. He didnt deliver in the clutch. Does the voting factor in playoff performance?
Ikmowitall,
“chance to upset the best team ever”. How would the number 1 ranked team beating the number 2 ranked team be an upset?
iDON’Tknowitall,
You might want to read what the award is about before you keep going on and on about who deserves it…”the premier individual award in Division III football, honoring excellence in athletics, academics and community service” This isn’t an award for just on the field heroics. The recipient is a great person both on and off the field and your sniping at a young man that has shown the character to deserve the award is pathetic at best.
Wiac Watcher, No one is complaining about WW fans arrogance. Just about the above idiots comments and the hipocracy of SeanGOP.
Iknowitall,
It would also be tough for a Soph to win this award. Not impossible, but I think it has always gone to a Senior in the past.
Those rankings are just numbers, teams dont play same teams. How can you rank one over the other sayuing one team is number one and one is number 2. Looking back at it right now it would have been a big upset for how goog whitwater is. Beaver has a 3.8 GPA and works with disadvantaged youths in the community. Plus he is best running back in the country maybe ever in Division 3. His offield perfromance is stronger then his on field. He deserved it.
I agree kiras dad. A sophomore over a senior is highly unlikely, especially when the senior is Brett Elliot.
Beaver does make a case, though, with his great stats, his 3.7 gpa and numerous community service hours/awards in Whitewater. Hopefully he at least ended up second on the voting ballot.
I’m not trying to strike a match with this, either, but I read a quote from Beaver in the paper that I think puts Saturday into perspective.
“We’re playing a team with a lot of tradition, but they can’t put all that tradition on the field,” Beaver said. “It’s our 2005 team against their 2005 team.”
Should be an outstanding matchup! Can’t wait!
I don’t have the official tally for this blog-
but I think the award for “most outrageous trash talk statements” is going to the UWW fans.
This one by Iknowitall takes the cake:
”Plus he is best running back in the country maybe ever in Division 3”
Rigg, a few things.
1.) There are only a few Whitewater fans on here talking like that, not the majority. I’m sure if you look elsewhere, there are fans from all over talking trash.
2.) After Beaver’s senoir season, that comment might not be such a farce…
Iknowitall is only one representative out of many at Whitewater. If you take his comments and use them against Whitewater in a negative light as a whole, than that’s called being shallow.
Well he is gonna break single season rushing record for D3 as a sophomore, that is a good start to being best running back ever in D3 I would think. Putting up 200 plus against MUC vaunted front seven will also help his cause one would think
Iknowitall,
Beaver has had a heck of a season, but he has a ways to go before becoming the best running back ever in D3. Chuck Moore and Dan Pugh have something to say about it. 🙂
Actually Moore and Pugh don’t have anything to say about it. the only one that can stop Beaver from becoming best Div 3 back ever is himself.
Eric
First of all! The number one back in Div.3 had his carries in just 10 games. The playoff didn’t count until recent years. So do the math. Not taking anything away from this kid. But, state the real facts here. Yeah! More yards an he did it with 4 more games.
First of all….Beaver missed a game, so 3 more. Until he plays Saturday, then that’s 4 more. Just letting you know.
I don’t know this, for I’m not a historical statistician, but whose record is Beaver attempting to break, when did he do it, and how many carries did that person have that season?
Just curious.
Again, the best D3 running back ever is bogus talk right now. But after his senior season people may change their minds. Heck, knowing the kid, he won’t give two kicks about it if he doesn’t get 90 yards on Saturday, as long as his team wins.
MOST YARDS GAINED
Season
2,385—Dante Brown, Marietta, 1996 (314 rushes)
Also holds per-game record with 238.5 (2,385 in 10)
pcole,
I was just loooking for that. So, those stats are from a 10 game season then right?
And watch comparing the Qb’s as well. The higest rated Qb in D3 of all time is Bill Borchert. His 47 tds were also in 10 games and if you add his 15 in the playoffs would make it 62 td’s in one season.
“Best” running back or quarterback can never be determined solely by the numbers….quality of o-line, quality of competition, offensive scheme, etc. are obviously things out of the back’s control which determine how well he does. Beaver gets his yards in part because of the balance that UWW has…the defense cannot overly committ to stopping him or Jacobs will burn them on the pass.
Hey Kirasdad, I am an NIU grad as well as a UWW grad….tell Coach Joe that he will get his MAC championship…the program keeps getting better and better! Great talent coming from Wisconsin to the Huskies!
All good backs will state that they are only as good as the O-Line
Poundtherock,
I couldn’t believe it when Akron scored with 10 seconds left. What the heck is a receiver doing getting behind a DB in the end zone like that? They should have been playing 4 Deep with no one behind them. Was a great throw and catch though.
Kirasdad,
Yes, that Akron game was heartbreaking…luckily this great playoff run by UWW has helped to ease my pain…hopefully another Ohio team will not break my heart again! Truthfully, some of the best football I have seen played this year were at UWW games…Derek Stanley has made a couple of catches that were among the best at any level of college football.
Beaver always hypes up his offensive lineman. He always gives them the credit first, and his fullback Travis Rueland (jr.), who is also a former high school teammate of his at Palmyra-Eagle.
Did the ’96 Marietta team not have a passing game or a good defense? Or was that when the stats didn’t count for playoffs?
Some teams have a hard time getting 238 yards total in one game, let alone rushing.
I’m usually not this picky, but Iknownothing keeps mentioning the MUC front 7. For the record, they don’t play with a front 7. They play with a front 6. Their base defense is a 4-2-5 with an extra free safety instead of an LB.
The only time I’ve seen them scrap their standard 4-2-5 was against Augie’s double tightend Wing-T when they went to a 5-2-4. In obvious passing/long yardage situtations, they’ll pull a DT and switch to a 3-2-6, or sometimes a 3-3-6 and blitz the extra LB.
I’m all being proud of your team’s accomplishments, but between seanJOB and Iknownothing, I’m begining to really dislike all things Whitewater. At least when St John’s and MUC played, there was a healthy amount of respect between the 2 fan bases. But then again both MUC and STU had been there before and knew how to act. Maybe after Whitewater wins 7 of the next 11 titles, they’ll learn how to act like they’ve been there before!
Kmic ran for 361 yds in his second career start vs. Augustana this year.
Marietta has not been introduced to the concept of the Forward Pass yet.
They will need a front 7 even front 8 or 9 against UWW. If they don’t Beaver will run wild.
Too…many…jokes…
Can’t…get…one..out…
Beaver Runs Wild… he he
And speaking of beaver, I prefer mine to be 5′-8″, 125 lbs. Not 5′-8″, 195 lbs……
Looking forward to Saturday. More than anything, I want MU to give WW a tight game. That will take some of the pain out of the seeding situation. Yep, I’m a still-ticked-off Linfield alum.
Question — what body does the seeding? How many people? Who are they? PCole made a valid point that WW could have been put in the North. Why weren’t they? It almost feels like the seeding situation can be as tainted as the bowl selection system in DI.
Far as I know, D3 only gets one nationally televised game a year. It should match the best 2 teams. Unless MU leads with a minute left, only to lose by 3, I believe the best 2 teams already met.
Mount Union, winner of seven national championships, with only one loss on the season, who beat Augie 40-plus something to seven, whose freshman runningback got 361 yards rushing in that game, is the underdog? Rushing yardage numbers like that remind me of Chuck Moore’s, the MUC back who won the Gagliardi Trophy. I’m kinda thinking that MUC can play some ball. (I’m a die-hard Augie fan, btw).
Also, St. John’s was the “underdog” to MUC in the final a little while back. Remember THAT game???
Yogi Berra said something like, “I don’t like to make predictions, especially about the future.”
Let’s watch the game, people, then we’ll all be in agreement. Good luck to both teams.
Hey let me say this. I am a Linfield fan and alumni. I was at the WW/Linfield game a couple of weeks ago. What an amazing game. Could have gone either way. One of the most impressive things was the fans for WW. They were first class for the entire game. I can say that some of the people on this site, namely llnowitall, are not like the fans that I met. Overall, they were very nice and respectful.
As for the best two teams meeting in the Championship? I will only say that they are. Both these teams have won all their playoff games and are now playing in the Stagg Bowl. Everything else is just speculation. A couple of weeks ago only a hand full of people thought WW would beat Linfield. They did. So, you never know until you play the game.
Anyway, good luck to both teams and I look forward to watching the game on TV this Saturday.
As a past player, I think coach K will have the team ready to play.
If you’re going to say “let’s watch the game, then we’ll all be in agreement,” don’t question who the underdog is. Personally, there is no line, so there is no underdog. Using the term underdog is just a cop-out.
And again, if you take a couple of Whitewater fans comments to a disliking, dislike that person, not the school/fans in general. I don’t think they hired SeanGOP and Iknowitall to be their PR representative.
BTW, there are way to many sexual inuendoes you can use with Beaver’s name. It’s hard trying to think of a poster that’s clean so it can go on ESPN!! Grrr.