It’s hard to keep from pondering that if the NCAA had put UW-Whitewater in the North and Lakeland in the West (remember, Whitewater is closer geographically to the rest of the North bracket than Lakeland is!) then we could have seen UW-Whitewater/Mount Union today and UW-Whitewater/Linfield next week.
Thank goodness there was a competitive game today. Rowan did alright by the East in this one. Should be a good crowd in Salem. Looking forward to that one.
Congrats to Mount Union and UW-Whitewater. Fans, you should know that the Stagg Bowl organizing committee is sponsoring giveaway of a free hotel night and admission to the game. On Friday there’s a luncheon for the teams at the Salem Civic Center that you can purchase tickets to. You should find out which team is in which hotel if you are traveling so you can figure out whether you want to stay in the Clarion or the Wyndham (one team will stay in each, though there are many other hotels to choose from as well, check the Stagg Bowl Web site).
Pat Cummings, Keith McMillan and I will have a live audio broadcast of the game, with Gordon Mann and I handling pregame, halftime and postgame festivities. We start two hours before the game kicks off, and our pregame show will include the first announcement of the D3football.com All-America team. We’ll also carry it through the postgame news conferences and give you our final thoughts on the 2005 season, probably running at least an hour after the games end. So if you want to hear what your team and coaches have to say, tune to us.
We’ll also do photo galleries from the week, including the luncheon and team activities, as well as the game.
Enjoy the week. Post responsibly.
here is how I see it these are the two best teams from the two best conferences period! Otherwise they wouldn’t be playing in the game. Both teams belong at the Stagg Bowl because they won every game up to this point and reguardless if you say well WW got lucky at Linfield and on the flip side if you say MU had an EZ draw well you know what WW beat Linfield and it was not up to MU who they had to draw against look they won which means on the days they played the games they were the better teams because there is only one stat that matters in the end and that is the score! Honestly it doesn’t matter what people say oh it is going to be close or it will be a blow out if the game was played on paper then you could say that but that is exactly why they play the game. Those people who say that Linfield isthe best D3 team well you kow what apparently they are not otherwise they would have beaten WW and been in the stagg bowl. Why doesn’t eveyone just relax with the trash talking and enjoy a great game that is set up on Saturday. You are seeing what true heart and love for the game really is D3 football. Good luck to all the players and I hope it is a awesome game and I am looking foward to it.
GO WARHAWKS!!!!!
here is how I see it these are the two best teams from the two best conferences period! Otherwise they wouldn’t be playing in the game. Both teams belong at the Stagg Bowl because they won every game up to this point and reguardless if you say well WW got lucky at Linfield and on the flip side if you say MU had an EZ draw well you know what WW beat Linfield and it was not up to MU who they had to draw against look they won which means on the days they played the games they were the better teams because there is only one stat that matters in the end and that is the score! Honestly it doesn’t matter what people say oh it is going to be close or it will be a blow out if the game was played on paper then you could say that but that is exactly why they play the game. Those people who say that Linfield isthe best D3 team well you kow what apparently they are not otherwise they would have beaten WW and been in the stagg bowl. Why doesn’t eveyone just relax with the trash talking and enjoy a great game that is set up on Saturday. You are seeing what true heart and love for the game really is D3 football. Good luck to all the players and I hope it is a awesome game and I am looking foward to it.
GO WARHAWKS!!!!!
I’m sure the fans are excited about the national coverage, and that they get to see a game other than a home game, and it’s not on our local campust TV station. I guarantee you Coach Brez and the rest of the coaching staff are keeping our guys’ heads in playing one more game. Cliché… take it one game at a time.
These guys have given us an amazing season, win or lose at the Stagg Bowl, and I’m sure everyones’ grades on finals will reflect the attention everybody’s paying to the football team.
pcole, you posted that link to the article you wrote a little while back. Yes, we have the backing of the WIAC, but we have the backing of UW-Madison Badgers Coach/Athletic Director Barry Alvarez as well. When preparing for Wesley last week, he invited the team to practice up there in the Badgers’ indoor practice facility all week if they wanted to. The team only spent one day up there, but it sure was appreciated.
I look forward to getting to play our fight song at a game with as much magnitude as the Stagg Bowl. I had the opportunity to march on Lambeau Field at half time of the Saints game in October. If you know anything about the history of that field, you can imagine how excited I was to be there. Well, I’m feeling almost the same excitement to come down to Virginia to backup our very own Warhawks. A running joke our director has is that every game we’ve (the band) played at this year, the team has won. I hope that stands true for the Championship, but like I said before, it will be decided on the field on Saturday.
To all those going to the game…. Keep an eye out for me… I’ll be the guy with the “RAIDERS” hat on… Flag me down and say hi… :-}
mikeb525 said:
“To all those going to the game…. Keep an eye out for me… I’ll be the guy with the “RAIDERS” hat on… Flag me down and say hi… :-}”
Hey look for me too. I’ll be the guy there wearing a t-shirt and pants.
Both Whitewater and MUC have had great seasons this year. And yes MUC does of experiance in the Stagg Bowl but history means nothing. Each year is a new set of players a new level of talent. I don’t care about this talk about the WIAC is the best conference or what not. All that matters right now is that this saturday the new national champion will be crowned. It should be a good game and I would like to congradulate every player who has made it this far they have worked their butts off. GOOD LUCK BOTH TEAMS!!! It should be a good one
This will be one of the best D3 games in recent memory. It’s looking like it will be just as good, if not better, a game that UW-W vs. Linfield was. Remember this: Whitewater’s offense will be returning 9 of 11 starters next year including Player of the Year candidate Justin Beaver (RB). The defense will be returning just as many! This team has all the makings to put together a great run for the upcoming years and will only help in recruiting more talent. Every great “dynasty”, such as the one Mt. Union has developed, has to start somewhere and I say this is a great building block. Good luck to Mt. Union, but watch out for the ‘Hawks! We’re in for a battle and it will be one for the record books.
wildcat1144 said: “Hey look for me too. I’ll be the guy there wearing a t-shirt and pants.”
And sleeping in the parking lot, right? 🙂
UWWFan
“And yes MUC does of experiance in the Stagg Bowl but history means nothing.”
I would agree that history means nothing in terms of these teams playing between the lines. But History does help the mental aspect some for the Raiders as they have the exprerince of knowing what to expect from what hotel they are staying at, what the press confernces will be like, to how long the bus ride is to the stadium. All of that helps in keeping an even keel going into the game.
Pat,
I was thinking about my trip last year to Salem and how that it may go down the annals as one of the all time most teribble road trips to Salem.
PCole,
“Heh, you don’t think the OAC had more teams over .500 because the OAC had more teams? Come on, people. Don’t waste our time.”
So sorry to waiste your valuable time…but by your same logic if we are such an inferior conference to the WIAC then our extra teams not being as good from top to bottom would be that much worse and provide for more opportunity to have more teams under 500. You didn’t need to get the panties in a bunch!
I’ll take your word for it and hope someone else can translate that run-on sentence of yours into something in English.
This is why English classes and grammar are important, people. 🙂
I understand that…. in a confused manner… sorta… kinda…
Early… and am sorry if too early… but..
Game weather outlook is in the mid-40’s…. T-shirt and shorts may be in the forcast WILDCAT1144…
I am excited to see (if it holds) a clear day of championship football so that there are no excuses on either side… just great football…
Don’t you all agree??
holy crap…i’m so pumped for this game and it’s only tues morning
i find myself spending every free moment checking this board to see what’s new…i’d say i need help but i think i’m ok with this
at least the game is sat and not early jan (the buckeyes-nd game will have to wait)
Alright- this blog seems dead today- so let me throw this out there.
And I ask this question with very little knowledge of Mt Union College,
it’s academic principles, etc…
But is Mt Union interested in moving up to div 1AA ??
Former D3 schools with not nearly Mt Union’s success come to mind- Dayton, Hofstra, Wagner- moved to div 1AA.
I don’t mean this in a bad way Mt Union fans but these stats are crazy-
8 championship games in the last 10 years.
A 54 game win streak, followed by a 55 game win streak.
Then again- I’m sure playing for a national championship every year never gets old…
Although playing against a stellar front 7, Justin Beaver should be able to get the 91 yards for the all-time rushing record in D3. Whitewater’s offense is too balanced to just focus on Beaver, which obviously helps him, and is why he will get it. It’s hard to keep him under 100 yards, especially if it’s a close game. I think his lowest total this year is 140, and he only played in the first half.
Also, just a question, probably stupid yes, but is the Gagliardi Trophy winner always announced before the championship game? Kind of different. I figure they’d wait.
If Elliot gets it, I think Beaver should be second on that list. In the NCAA stats it says he’s a junio, but he’s just a sophomore this year.
rigg0123,
It may happen but I do not think in the near future. Our new President of the college wants to expand enrollment and build a new recreation center, and possibly apartments on campus. He wants to expand the college but I do not think we would make it to D1-AA. Our stadium holds 5,000 but with standing room and student section it can get close to 8,000. I do not think that is big enough to be D1-AA. It would be exciting to see and maybe one day Mount might actually move up but not in the near future.
This gets brought up every year and every year the same answer is there … NO. Did people bug Augustana about this each year too?
One other question, why does everyone want move us immediately to 1AA and not to D2 first…just curious.
acoltfan has written great stuff.
I am not here to smear all Mt. Onion fans, just BIGMUCFAN for his constant “bla bla bla I’m great” crap.
Mt. Onion probably has 99% great fans – it is the 1% who act like bigmucfan that give the rest a soiled reputation.
UW Whitwater 35 (at least)
Mt. Onion 21 (at most)
I don’t think Mt. Onion fans realize just how dominating UW Whitewater really is. They will find out soon enough.
Why is it everyone wants a school of a little over 2000 students to move up when you have schools with almost 9000 students still in D3?
Most D3 schools have an Avg. of 2000 students. Then there is the select few schools such as Rowan and the Wisc. schools. All of which start around 5000 and go up to 8900 students. These schools have more students to pick from for their Athletics. These schools should dominate simply by the number of students. Is there a break off point by students body which makes you a certain Division?
This isn’t high school. It’s not like UWW is recruiting players by hanging up signs in the hallways and taking the best 100 walk-ons. Those players are all recruited specifically to come to UWW, like everywhere else in D-III.
“is the Gagliardi Trophy winner always announced before the championship game? Kind of different.”
Yes. Always announced before the championship game. Kind of like the Heisman.
The reverse could be said about Mount Union and its roster that approaches 200 players. The WIAC imposes a 100-man roster limit on its football teams, yet Mount Union has nearly twice as many.
In truth, NEITHER numeric disparity is a factor in the schools’ football success, but fingers could easily be pointed in either direction.
Wasn’t pointing fingers. I was simply using facts to ask the question of what makes a school D1, D2 or D3.
Notre Dame has about 11,500 students. UW-Whitewater has about 10,500. Obviously a lot more than school size determines which division you are in and even how good of a team you have.
so if division isn’t determined by enrollment…then what is the deciding factor?
I think stadium size and attendance are a big factor in determining a team’s division
Game strategy: I wouldn’t be surprised if the Warhawks came out passing early in order to loosen up the defense for Beaver. I would expect Mt. Union to be trying to stop Beaver at first and challenging Whitewater to beat them with the passing game. Thoughts?
SeanGOP,
“Mt. Onion probably has 99% great fans – it is the 1% who act like bigmucfan that give the rest a soiled reputation.”
I think maybe if you didn’t keep insulting all of the Mt. folks by insisting on the Mt. Onion reference than maybe you’d be taken a little bit seriously. As it stands right now all I can do is assume that you’re WW’s 1% and not hold it against the rest of their fans.
hmm…well if that’s the case then muc would not be able to move at all.
the stadium on sat wasn’t even completely full. lot of empty seats on the visiting side. now i know that a lot of those seats were reserved for rowan fans who understandably didn’t make the trip from NJ but still.
i was actually a little disappointed to not see a larger crowd…can’t complain about the enthusiasm and noise though
I thought that division assignment was basically decided on how many athletic scholarships a school wanted to hand out and that everything else was secondary.
Who knows how it works. John Hopkins is D3 football but D1 in lacrosse.
In fact until a few years ago. UConn was D1 in Basketball and D2 ithink in football.
I understand that the Heisman is announced before the D1 championship game. Thanks for belittling me 🙂 They do it nearly a month before the game, while they announced the Gagliardi winner four days beforehand. Not that it makes a huge difference, I was just curious. Thanks.
According to the NCAA
Here is what a college needs to do to be considered Div I – or Div ! A
An institution classified in Division I-A shall meet all the Division I membership requirements set forth in NCAA Bylaws 20.9.1 through 20.9.5 and in addition, shall:
1. Sponsor a minimum of 16 varsity intercollegiate sports, including football, based on the minimum sports sponsorship and scheduling requirements set forth in Bylaw 20. Sponsorship shall include a minimum six sports involving all male teams or mixed teams (males and females), and a minimum of eight varsity intercollegiate teams involving all female teams. Institutions may use up to two emerging sports to satisfy the required eight varsity intercollegiate sports involving all female teams. [Bylaw 20.9.6.1]
2. Schedule and play at least 60 percent of its football contests against members of Division I-A. During the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons, the institution shall schedule and play at least four regular season home football contests against members of Division I-A. Thereafter, the institution shall schedule and play at least five regular season home contests against Division I-A opponents. [Bylaw 20.9.6.2]
3. Annually average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.6.3]
4. Provide an average of at least 90 percent of the permissible maximum number of overall football grants-in-aid per year over a rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.6.4-(a)]
5. Annually offer a minimum of 200 athletics grants-in-aid or expend at least four million dollars on grants-in-aid to student-athletes in athletics programs. [Bylaw 20.9.6.4-(b)]
For those with division questions…
This is from 2003-04, so possibly a bit outdated, but the best I could find on a quick search.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2003-04/2003-04_d1_manual.pdf#
Bylaw 20 talks about division requirements. Hopefully you can find all the info you want, but you do have to dig and scroll a lot.
Augustana was never asked of they were going to be moving from D3 after the National Championships, but I am told that Coors offered to build for free a new stadium (major rehab of the old one) if we sold Coors there.
Agustana said, “Thanks but no thanks”. NOOOOOOOOOOO.
I’d look at athletic department budgets before I’d look to enrollment figures for an answer. What you can afford determines where you want to go.
Well part of what makes a school a D! school is the fact they give out full athletic schlorships whereas D3 are not allowed. As institutuions they can give out only academic schlorships but I am also sure there are other factors as well.
Here’s something I found on an NCAA site:
What’s the difference
between Divisions I, II and III?
Division I
Division I member institutions have to sponsor at least seven sports for men and seven for women (or six for men and eight for women) with two team sports for each gender. Each playing season has to be represented by each gender as well. There are contest and participant minimums for each sport, as well as scheduling criteria. For sports other than football and basketball, Div. I schools must play 100% of the minimum number of contests against Div. I opponents — anything over the minimum number of games has to be 50% Div. I. Men’s and women’s basketball teams have to play all but two games against Div. I teams, for men, they must play 1/3 of all their contests in the home arena. Schools that have football are classified as Div. I-A or I-AA. I-A football schools are usually fairly elaborate programs. Div. I-A teams have to meet minimum attendance requirements (17,000 people in attendance per home game, OR 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years or, 30,000 permanent seats in their stadium and average 17,000 per home game or 20,000 average of all football games in the last four years OR, be in a member conference in which at least six conference members sponsor football or more than half of football schools meet attendance criterion. Div. I-AA teams do not need to meet minimum attendance requirements. Div. I schools must meet minimum financial aid awards for their athletics program, and there are maximum financial aid awards for each sport that a Div. I school cannot exceed.
Division II
Division II institutions must sponsor at least five sports for men and five for women or four sports for men and six for women, with two team sports for each gender, and each playing season represented by each gender. There are contest and participant minimums for each sport. Division II schools must meet minimum financial aid awards for their athletics program, and there are maximum financial aid awards for each sport that a Division II school cannot exceed. Division II teams usually feature a number of local or in-state student-athletes. Many Division II student-athletes pay for school through a combination of scholarship money, grants, student loans and employment earnings. Division II athletics programs are financed in the institution’s budget like other academic departments on campus. Traditional rivalries with regional institutions dominate schedules of many Division II athletics programs.
Division III
Division III institutions have to sponsor at least five sports for men and five for women, with three team sports for each gender, and each playing season represented by each gender. There are minimum contest requirements for all sports and minimum participant requirements for individual sports. Division III athletics features student-athletes who receive no financial aid related to their athletic ability and athletic departments are staffed and funded like any other department in the university. Division III athletics departments place special importance on the impact of athletics on the participants rather than on the spectators. The student-athlete’s experience is of paramount concern. Division III athletics encourages participation by maximizing the number and variety of athletics opportunities available to students, placing primary emphasis on regional in-season and conference competition.
I’m still amazed that Mount Union carries 200 players on its football team. The football budget must dwarf the budget for all other sports. How large are the practice facilities, or even the training facilities. Actually, I don’t know how you could carry 200 players. How many full time coaches do they have? How many connections can a coach make – aren’t there players that he doesn’t even know? There have to be a lot of players that never even dress for a game in their career. It’s not like you’re at Notre Dame.
Coach K doesn’t believe in cutting players since they are all volunteers more or less (no scholarships). They get nothing fancy on away games just box lunches. We have decent facilities but those have come over time and winning the NCs didn’t hurt any there. When I was there 10 yrs back the football team dressed in a hundred year old gym locker room so it wasn’t till recently that they even got a decent locker room. They do use some grad assistants to help coach but exact number of “full” time coaches I’m not sure (one assistant is the tennis head coach). I’d like to know how he keeps it all organized at practice with that many bodies, but apparently he does it quite well. I’m not sure what the rule is for number of players dressed at home games, but don’t forget we also have JV games so players not getting time on the Varsity squad don’t get rusty for 2+ years.
Pat,
While it is true that D3 is not high school, you could probably make an argument (even though no D3 school gives athletic scholarships) that a larger public institution of say 10,000 students has some advantage over a private institition of 1,000. Private schools tuition in many cases is double or more of many public institutions. A larger institution can also offer more majors which could be a factor in recruiting. I know these are just two of many factors that go into making this type of decision. No agenda on this other than just something to think about.
Can’t wait until Saturday!!
Foxden and TJE:
That’s very useful information. Thanks for sharing.
lilpeds:
Fair enough, my bad.
Makes sense to announce it then, though, when there’s media attention on Division III and people in town to see it. Also, since the voting is completed around the time of the national quarterfinals, it already isn’t taking the fianal game into account. Better to do it beforehand, frankly, than compile votes before and announce after.
The advantage a state school like the WIAC schools have isn’t the size of the student body, it’s the size of the tuition. It’s a little easier to recruit non-scholarship athletes when your tuition isn’t $30,000.
Rowan has the same advantage. Glassboro State wasn’t a powerhouse until old man Rowan gave the school something like $20+ million. At which the school changed it’s name to Rowan University and tuition became very affordable. Nothing like going to a good private school for the same money as an in-state public school.
And on the subject of MUC having a 200+ roster, that many players is actually a hinderence, not an advantage. LK’s opinion is that if someone is willing to work at practice, then he earns the right to wear the purple on Saturdays. And at home games, everyone dresses. Which makes the entrance thru the tunnel a 5 minute process. What I don’t like about rosters is the NCAA’s restriction on playoff roster size (48? or 52?). There are many MUC players that have started all season on special teams that can’t make the playoff roster jsut because you have to carry a 3rd QB just in case. Those kids worked just as hard as the starters on O and D, but get jipped out of the playoff experience. I understand that the NCAA can’t pay for all 200 kids to travel, but if the school wants to pay for the extra kids, they should have that option.
Rowan is still a state school, HSCoach.
Number of Athletic scholarships is the number one factor between the divisions. And as we all know, if you want to be D-III you can’t give any. Although….Financial Aid packages often times are the exact same thing under a different name. Another interesting thing in the difference between D-I and DI-AA. D-I schools can not give out partial scholarships for football and basketball. it’s all or nothing. D-IAA can divide a scholarship up any number of ways. And lastly, if an athlete plays more than one sport at the D-I level, the schoralship HAS to be counted against the biggest program..i.e. football. This stops schools from giving a kid a track scholarship when in reality he’s going to be playing football.
It was a 100 million dollar endowment to start an engineering school in South Jersey. Not a penny assisted an athletic programs. In fact Glassboro State’s football program was starting the turnaround under John Bunting. He got Glassboro State’s first playoff win. He lost to national champ Ithaca in 1991 in the second round. In 1992, he made it to the semifinal before moving on to coach linebackers with the KC Chiefs.
Until Rowan put down field turf they practiced on a 60 yard “grass” field with a crooked goal post. So it is the program, not the facilities that attract players.
I wish Rowan had half the facilities that Mount Union has.