SALEM — You shoulda got ’em this year.
Mount Union and UW-Whitewater each had to replace significant chunks of their lineups for 2008, with the graduation of dominant senior classes. There were questions coming into the season, and frankly, the Road to Salem was as wide open as we’ve seen in years.
But now that the Purple Raiders and Warhawks have traveled that road, mostly in dominant fashion, once again, it’s fair to look ahead and wonder how anyone can overcome them.
Certainly in football there are upsets, injuries, weather and other factors that play into who emerges victorious at the end of a 10-game season backed by a 32-team playoff. That’s half the fun, nothing is a given.
But Mount Union started eight seniors today: QB Greg Micheli, RB Nate Kmic, T Luke Summers, G James Bird, TE Chad Reynolds, DE Joseph Millings, LB Chas Yoder and CB Daryl Ely. They also started 12 juniors and two sophomores, a nucleus that — while without their stars in the backfield — will likely be favored to return to Salem.
UW-Whitewater, which started three seniors (Ts Mike Sherman and Rob Gilbreath, and MLB Jace Rindahl), is even better positioned to make a run next season. QB Jeff Donovan is a junior, RB Antwan Anderson is a sophomore and RB Levell Coppage is a freshman. Altogether, Whitewater started 12 juniors, five sophomores and two freshmen in the Stagg Bowl.
One thing that doesn’t sound like it will be happening is a Purple Raiders-Warhawks regular-season matchup. Mount Union has nine conference games locked and UW-Whitewater has seven, and a game in the first week of ’09 and ’10 is possible. The teams played in that slot in ’02 and ’03, but Mount Union coach Larry Kehres was jokingly noncommittal after the Stagg Bowl.
“I was stupid enough to wear a stocking cap this week and get caught on video,” he said, referring to an incident at the Stagg Bowl luncheon where Kehres’ picture was shown on a big screen. “But I’m not stupid enough to schedule Whitewater in the regular season.”
Perhaps its a show of respect from Kehres, who now has a rival program capable of beating his team in any given season. But if UW-Whitewater is considered on Mount Union’s level, or close to it, that’s not good news for the rest of us. Sure, we have our conference titles to chase and playoff games to participate in, but if there are two dominant powers, and no one could stop their inexperienced rosters from getting to Salem, what makes us think we’ll be able to stop them any time soon?
Are we destined for more of the same?
The floor is open for well-supported arguments for teams that might break the Purple cycle.
Well, I would say that, MUC and Whitewater would have to be the favorites next season with all the talent they’ll return.
However,
1) For MUC, any time you lose players like Kimic and Micheli, there’s going to be question marks as to the ability to replace that prodction. 8,000 yards and an 18-1 TD/INT ratio don’t come easy even for them. Of course, the OAC was pretty weak, so it’s hard to imagine them not being 10-0, with a #1 seed and an easy path to Salem. That pretty much sets the course, especially if the NCAA decides to move them to the weakest region again.
2) Whitewater’s interesting. They bring back a ton of talent but, if we’re being honest, could have lost to Stout and Eau Claire this season, preventing them from even making the playoffs. Also, they had a close playoff game against Willamette.
MUC didn’t face a serious challenge until the Stagg Bowl, so it’s tough to get a read on them. Their OOC game at Fisher looks less imposing than it did years ago when it was scheduled..
For all the talent UW-W is returning, it’s not like you had to stretch the imagination to not see them in Salem this season. Frankly, it’d be suprising to me if they were back…
Mark it down…Stagg Bowl XXXVII will be just like XXXVI, XXXV, XXXIV, XXXIII – UWW vs Mount. You’re in a state of denial, YeahBombers!!
You can try to be clever, coming up with far-fetched ideas why it might be difficult next year for Mount and Whitewater, but at the end of the day, your points are a mere pipe dream. If anything, the last 15 years or so should make it plainly known that the next Nate Kmic or Greg Micheli are in probably somewhere on that 200 man roster in Alliance – just because you don’t know about them doesn’t mean they are not there. BTW, MUC is so good, they don’t need extraordinary talents like Kmic or Micheli, just good solid ball players. Mount is so many light years ahead of anybody else, everybody except for UWW, that it’s foolish even suggesting they have any question marks – and as far as Whitewater goes, it is true they get more regular season tests playing in the WIAC, the best football playing conference in D3. They will enter 2009 as the favorite again. The key to winning in the WIAC is called “win and survive,” which suits them well because the NCAA tournament is much the same. The Warhawks have a proven level of accomplishment over the past 4 years in that department. And with the talent returning, a few more quality recruits, and a healthy year, the thought that they would surprise you if they returned in 09 to the biggest stage, show your ignoranance towards reality. If someone rises up to challenge them next year, like Stevens Point this year, it can only make them stronger. And we welcome the challenge!!
And why I’m at it, don’t diss Willamette – a team you’ve never seen play. Other than the two Stagg Bowl participants, they were probably the only other Stagg Bowl-worthy team in D3 this year – not UMHB, not Wheaton, definately no one out east -that was a good team, but like all but two teams in D3, had too many holes in their armour to take it to the next level.
There is one other reason Mount will not schedule Whitewater in ’09, they have a game with St John Fisher as the opener next year. It would be great to see the Raiders in MN, Collegeville to be exact in ’10 or ’11. Hint Hint.
Congratulations to the RAIDERS for their “One for the other thumb accomplishment!
Thanks Pat, Keith and Ryan and all the staff at D3 Football for the great coverage throughout the year on all sites. Keep up the good work.
Nathan,
For the record, I said that MUC would likely be back in Salem. The only reason I was somewhat doubtful of UW-W was because they play in a tough conference.
When in my post did I diss Willamette? The only thing I said about them was that they gave UW-W a tight game–which is true. Read posts before being critcal of them
Essentially, the only thing I said critical of Whitewater was that they played three close games, and that had they lost any of them, they might not have made the playoffs. Not many 8-2 teams did, so again, that’s not a stretch. You play in a tough conference.
I’m sick of you MUC/Whitewater guys. Most of you don’t respect any other teams. Any time someone says anything other than “Your teams are the best, and always will be” you’re critical of them. We may as well not even play a regular season, since it’s so F***ing obvious that no-one else in D-III even matters. You’re the worst kind of fan there is. You don’t want to engage in any discussion. You simply want your teams to be annointed the best in the land.
Whitewater is a great team, no-one is doubting that. But teams go through cycles. You’ve made the NCAA’s six times, gone to four Staggs and won one. That’s an impressive resume, no doubt. But it’s one that other teams have as well. It wasn’t all that long ago, (1999) that you guys were 3-7 and were 5-5 in 2002. So stop acting like D-III football started in 2005.
I’m an Ithaca fan, and while they’re not the program they once were, they’ve got a nice history too. They’ve been to the NCAA’s more times than Whitewater, they’ve gone to more Stagg Bowls than Whitewater, and they’ve won more Stagg Bowls than Whitewater. So quit acting like you’re team has never struggled and show some respect for others
I agree with YeahBombers. Teams go through cycles and trust me MUC and UWW will go through their cycle. Some teams struggle with injuries which they sometime overcome and sometime they do not. When this happens to a team they have to try and overcome the adversities and find ways to win. UWW,MUC, found ways to win and I congratulate them on their success and wish them the best for next season. Sometimes it is difficult for a team to get past a team as in the case with UMHB versus UWW as it was with Wesley however they managed to get pass a great team as Wesley and they will find a way to get pass a great UWW team. I think if UMHB were not so injury prone this past season, especially losing a talented running back as Quincy Daniels they would have surpassed UWW this season. I also think the next Stagg will feature MUC and UMHB.
Hey Yeah, I’m a UWW guy and I take offense to your comment. Most of the posts I read from UWW fans and MUC fans are pretty fair. I agree Nathan may be a bit confident, but none of the UWW people I know take anything for granted, especially the coaches and players.
I think it’s fair to say that UWW would be one of the clear favorites to return, IF they don’t have injuries, if they get some breaks along the way and if the fire remains.
Nothing against MUC because they have earned their way, but they probably have an easier path to the playoffs through their conference and through their region. That hasn’t mattered though, as they do it on the big stage as well.
I think the bottom line is simple, you can’t win the race unless you have the horses- and some good coaching with it. All it takes is for a school to get that special group of kids, and then oftentimes it just builds on itself. I’m sure we will see other programs rise up as that happens.
Calm down YeahBombers before you blow a gasket!!
Willamette gave Whitewater a great game because they were a very good team. Whitewater had some close games not because of inferior competition, which is your inference, but because the West Region is strong. IMO the NCAA committee made a error when ranking the regions – East was #1 because of Mount, West a close #2, North and South would be interchangeable as #3 and #4.
Frankly, you would be surprised if Whitewater was back in the Stagg Bowl?…because they play in a tough conference?…yeahRight!!!
Frankly speaking, I would be surprised if Whitewate wasn’t back in the Stagg Bowl next year and for a few more years to come!!!
UWW’s two-deep from todays game.
Starters:
4 Seniors
11 Juniors
5 Sophomores
2 Freshman
Seconds:
2 Seniors
5 Juniors
10 Sophomores
5 Freshman
The next few years continue to look great.
Thanks for bringing up Ithaca’s proud past. As a history buff, I’m well aware of Ithaca’s early D3 accomplishment. Although it’s not relevant to a discussion about next year, I never showed a lack of respect for it. However, have you heard of the term “what have you done for me lately?”…MUC, 1 and UWW 1A are in a class by themselves today, tomorrow, and for the immediate future until someone else can prove they belong to…that’s not a lack of respect, just telling it like it is. You seem to be a little overly sensitive over that. Sorry to trouble you over it.
I hope you and all the readers have a happy holiday season and a prosperous New Year.
Yeahbombers,
Don’t pay any attention to NathanShin—-he’s just a guy full of hot air. Just a guy that flaps his gums too much.
Mike,
I apologize for lumping all UWW and MUC fans together.
The problem I had was with nathan basically saying I’m “dissing” other teams, or that I “don’t know” about Mount Union, or that I’m “making up” reasons why these teams will lose because I’m “in denial”. I never dissed anyone least of all Willamette, I’ve seen Mt. Union play (apparently nathan forgot that the Bombers played MUC last season), and the fact that the NCAA’s all-time leading rusher and D-III’s top QB are graduating for MUC is not “made up”, nor is the fact that UW-W had a few nailbiters to win this season.
I have no problem admitting that UWW and MUC are among the favorites to get back to Salem, but when people like nathan come along and basically rip you for having the audacity to say that maybe there;s a CHANCE UW-W and MUC won’t be the last two teams standing next season, it rubs me the wrong way. Not for nothing, but there’s 220 other teams in D-III football as well, and good football is played outside Wisconsin and Alliance. I don’t like it when some—stressing the some—fans forget that.
There’s no doubt UW_W is immensly talented, but as you said, they have to stay healthy, they have to get a break or two, etc. All I said was, they played some close games along the way, and you never know how those games will tip next season. There’s 14 games to be played before Salem, and a lot can happen. All I’d like is for people to respect that, just like we respect that UW-W and MUC are the class of the Division right now.
Well said Yeah.
I am rooting for other programs to step up-as long as they are out east though (east of Indiana) because you’re right, UWW played several nail biters this year.
I just approved the four posts hung up in moderation. Some of you might be lucky it was me who got to those first, as I am fairly lenient when it comes to board conduct (also I hate policing grown men capable of policing themselves).
A few reminders if you don’t want your posts to get hung up in moderation by the software:
Keep your comments fairly short
Keep your comments above board and devoid of personal insults and/or words that would get picked up by the moderation software.
In other words, act like big boys.
Heated discussion is good, and I’m not trying to be condescending, because we want you to have the opportunity to discuss here. Just keep a few of those things in mind.
Nathan,
As I said, you have a lot of talent returning. My main problem with your post was that you seemed to imply I was making things up and not aware of the talent on these two teams. I thought I kept my original post fairly factual.
You’re right that MUC and UW-W are the class of D-III, but, as you’re aware, Ithaca used to be in that class too. Now look at where they are in relation to you guys. And it can happen quickly. IC won it all in 1991 and were in the national semis in 1994. They didn’t return to the playoffs till 2001 and they didn’t host a playoff game till this season. They haven’t been back to Salem (or Bradenton, as it were) since 1991. The descent may not happen next season, or the one after that, but eventually, everyone drops back down. Even the mighty Mount.
All I’m saying is, sometimes, on this site, there are people who are a little too quick to just pop in MUC and UW-W in the NC game. There’s nothing wrong with arriving at that conclusion of course. But I think that there are some occasions where it feels like the regular season and some of the playoffs are viewed as a formality for teams like MUC and UW-W, and it’s that kind of thinking that, in my mind, it disrespectful of other teams.
CaptainCru, are there inaccuracies in my statement? Feel free to set me straight without having to resort to the personal insults. That’s totally unnecessary. Only said I thought YB was being a little sensitive to my comments – and I apologized for it…Is someting wrong with that?
At the risk of offending others, I pose the following question: If we consider MUC and UW-W to be the favorites, which team is most likely to put the wrench in Round 5 and why? UMHB? Wheaton? Cortland? North Central? In other words, give us a reason to believe there’s a reason to watch the first 14 weeks.
YeahBombers,
I think UMHB definitely has the ability to put a monkeywrench in UWW-MUC 5. They had the ability this year and that was evident in the 1st half of the semi-final game. UMHB was able to play with UWW, UWW made the right adjustments, took advantage of the mistakes made by UMHB, and did the things good defenses do to change that in the second half and pull away. I also think that if UWW had played offensively in the first half of the Stagg like they did against UMHB the Warhawks would have lifted the Walnut and Bronze. In the first half, especially in the first quarter, Donovan was holding on to the ball for a long time which let the MUC defense get to him. One of the things that helped UWW in the UMHB game was Donovan getting the ball out quick which, combined with the behemoth offensive line, really minimized the effectiveness of the UMHB pass rush. That same kind of quickness in the 1st half, which showed in the second half, and I think UWW wins.
As to reasons why I think UMHB will be better next year, it all comes down to experience. UMHB will lose a lot, 17 seniors, but the one good thing that came out of this injury plagued season was that the young players got significant game time experience. There were 24 Sophomores on the Cru team this season, many of them were starters at some point in the season and really stepped up. Kyle Noack at QB started several games over Saenz during the season and is a real passing threat. The receiving corps that is probably the best UMHB has had top to bottom will all return except 1, and he’s the #5 receiver on the team. Quincy Daniels should be back in the running game (maybe for 2 years if he opts to apply for the medical) and Matt Hurst who has been so effective as a straight ahead power runner and averaged 6.1 yards per carry is only a sophomore.
As for the defense, replacing an all-american or two is always hard, but UMHB has been able to do it the past few seasons. The defense is the biggest question mark for me. THe Cru will lose a bunch on the Defensive line, but most of LB’s will be back and Bryson Tucker, who has been the starting RB since the middle of the year, will be able to move back to defense. I don’t know if the move will happen, but the possibility is there and he was one of the best defenders we had before moving to RB. Even with playing half a season at RB he finished the season 6th in tackles.
It will be interesting to see what the coaches do in the off-season because after the UWW game they were talking about reexamining everything and changes being made which could help or hinder. I’d like to think the changes will help and take advantage of the different skill sets available at QB and RB, but I don’t know. But whatever happens I think the Cru has enough coming back to be able to upset the apple cart.
wow. sorry that got so long guys.
Toby’s comments sound similar to the argument I laid out in the postgame show but fleshed out with more detail than I was able to summon on UMHB off the cuff. Good job!
I also think if you are looking for teams that are capable of knocking off one of the two that you might have hopes for Hardin-Simmons.
Mount had a bus load of sophomores sitting in the stands. Will they be back, we’ll see, could they be back, for sure.
This might sound a bit stupid and unfounded to those of you not close to the program, but I really think Monmouth could be a dark horse next year. ie the Franklin of ’09.
Consider that the Scots rolled up 240 total yards and 28 points on Wartburg…in the first half! Monmouth lost the game because of 4 second half turnovers and a bad decision on a 33 yard field goal with 1:30 to play. They blew a golden opportunity to host WW in the Region Final. And, after watching Wartburg play WW nearly even through the middle of the 4Q, I’m not so sure the Scots couldn’t have won that game at home.
Their offense is explosive (#1 scoring offense at nearly 47 ppg) and they return 10 offensive starters including QB Alex Tanney (So.) who I felt was good enough for All-America consideration. This is a completely different program than the one we saw losing badly to St. Johns in ’05. Coach Bell has recruited a different breed of athlete over the last few years and the attitude is no longer “just win the conference”. They have the size and speed that we never saw in season’s past. This team will break the mold for the MWC…mark my word.
Just another Monmouth tidbit, although it really doesn’t apply to football, it’s interesting nonetheless. Steve Bell was hired as MC head coach by school athletic director Terry Glasgow and president Richard Giese. Giese was a faculty member and VP for 19 years at Mount Union prior to coming to Monmouth. After a 5 year stint at MC, president Giese returned to Mount Union to assume the same role. His “Toward a New Horizon” program was a physical transformation to both the school and the athletic venues. This included the renovations to the football field that were completed this year, and a multi-million dollar fieldhouse for basketball. Just thought that was interesting…
Now Mount needs one for the toe! Great season all teams…great to be a part of the D3family….where true Champions are crowned through tough playoffs…..Congrats to all fans and players for a job well done! Now when is Mount’s first game again?
I think North Central will be very, very good next year. they return something like 16 starters including all of their key skill players and their entire defensive front. As good as Wheaton’s run was this year, North Central’s team will be better by a margin next year. If they stay healthy I would be very surprised if they don’t make it to a regional final/final 4 next year. Wheaton’s offense will be very good (8 starters back from their team including top RB and QB),but their defense loses 9 starters. People were impressed with Wheaton’s qb in the playoffs and I think he made great strides, but Fanthorpe from North Central has been better than Norris every year. A healthy NCC will be poised to make a lot of noise next year.
GoScotties:
I had the same thought about Monmouth being the Franklin of 2009.
It’s actually kind of coincidental that MC’s 08 season ended the same way Franklin’s did in 07. The one difference is that I hope Monmouth can sustain the success they’ve had under Bell and be a perennial playoff team. I would imagine Franklin will be good next year, but losing Rupp will not be easy to absorb. Since a 3-7 season in his first as head coach, the Scots are 64-18 in the last 8 years under Bell and 52-11 in the last 6. They won only 5 games in the 3 years prior to his arrival.
Next year should provide for some unusually good competition for MC in the MWC. I say that not because MC has been so dominant, but because the MWC is traditionally weak. They start with Loras (IIAC) at home. Monmouth was one of only two teams to beat Loras in Dubuque this year. I believe the other was Buena Vista. Then, they play at Carroll (7-3), home against St. Norbert (7-3), and at Ripon (8-2). The Ripon game is the one to keep an eye on. The Redhawks were unbeaten at home this year and, other than the loss to the Scots, Ripon’s only loss was on the road at UW-Oshkosh (14-13) when they missed an extra point. That’s the same Oshkosh team that lost 34-33 to WIAC champ UW-SP.
I can’t wait…
Go Scotties,
I hope Monmouth does well next year.
I caution you on using comparative scoring to determine whether a team would do well against another team. As an example, just because Wartburg played tough against UWW doesn’t mean (through comparative scoring) that Monmouth would have played a close game against MUC in the national championship.
As stated before, it mostly comes down to having the horses. At least for the last four years it seems the recipe for national champion is pretty clear. You have to have speed mixed with size on both sides of the ball- and most importantly I believe, you have to work to reduce the number of weaker links/weaknesses on the field, as good teams will exploit them. I think MUC is better at this than any other team, including UWW. That is why MUC wins so decisevely against its other competition, there are too many weak links/weaknesses and MUC goes right after it. I think it might help to think along the same lines as the UMHB coach is thinking, from here on out he is building his team to beat a powerhouse school, not necessarily one from his own conference. And so, man for man, how does Monmouth match up against a MUC or a UWW, in every aspect of the game?
I think Whitewater is about as close to a lock as you’ll find for making a return trip to Salem with the numbers they have returning.
UWW’s two-deep from the 08 Stagg.
Starters:
4 Seniors
11 Juniors
5 Sophomores
2 Freshman
Second string:
2 Seniors
5 Juniors
10 Sophomores
5 Freshman
On the Mount Union side, obviously Micheli and Kmic won’t be easily replaced, but the cupboard is hardly bare in Alliance:
Mount offensive starters:
5 seniors (Micheli, Kmic , TE Reynolds, LG Bird and RT Summers)
6 juniors
Mount offensive back-ups:
2 seniors (WR and FB)
7 juniors
2 sophomores
Mount defensive starters:
3 seniors (DE Millings, LB Yoder and CB Ely)
6 juniors
2 sophomores
Mount defensive back-ups:
2 seniors (DE and LB)
4 juniors
1 sophomore
4 freshmen
If one of the young Mount QB’s turns out to be a quality player, Whitewater vs. Mount – Part 5 is very possible.
GoScotties — Just want to send out a note of appreciation for the FRANKLIN mention !! And yes the GRIZ lose a lot in All Americans Rupp and McManus and a host of other great players … BUT … the Franklin of ’08 is just another brick in the foundation (29-6 over 3 years) upon which Coach Leonard will build with some very talented underclassmen coming of age !! So … again it will likely be a season long effort of trying to earn the respect of the rest of the D-3 nation, but it may be prudent to be aware that ’08 wasn’t a one-and-done deal for Franklin College !! Congrats to all for a spectacular play-off from start to finish and to Mount Union for taking home yet another title.
NATHANSHIN,
You must live on Mars, the statement below is just crazy. UMHB not Stagg Bowl worthy??? Stop smoking crack while you’re at it, c’mon man!!
“And why I’m at it, don’t diss Willamette – a team you’ve never seen play. Other than the two Stagg Bowl participants, they were probably the only other Stagg Bowl-worthy team in D3 this year – not UMHB, not Wheaton, definately no one out east -that was a good team, but like all but two teams in D3, had too many holes in their armour to take it to the next level”.
nathanshin,
Stop acting like UWW has been great like MUC. Only since 2005 have they been great. Plus, this program has been around much longer than UMHB.
UMHB 11 YEARS FOOTBALL PROGRAM
1999 (5-5, 4-3 ASC)
2000 (9-1, 8-1 ASC)
2001 (8-2, 6-1 ASC)
2002 (10-1, 9-0 ASC)
2003 (9-1, 8-1 ASC)
2004 (13-2, 8-1 ASC)
2005 (9-2, 7-1 ASC)
2006 (10-3, 8-0 ASC)
2007 (12-2, 8-0 ASC)
2008 (12-2, 8-0 ASC)
UWW HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 70 YEARS OR SOMETHING.
1999 (3-7, 3-4 WIAC)
2000 (5-5, 3-4 WIAC)
2001 (5-5, 2-5 WIAC)
2002 (5-5, 4-3 WIAC)
2003 (7-3, 5-2 WIAC)
2004 (7-3, 4-3 WIAC)
2005 (14-1, 7-0 WIAC)
2006 (14-1, 7-0 WIAC)
2007 (14-1, 7-0 WIAC)
2008 (13-2, 6-1 WIAC)
mikem17:
I agree that comparing scores is not the best method of determining how one team will match up with another…there are thousands of examples that disprove that theory. It is more than just the score, it’s time of possession, turnovers and, last but not least, total yards.
A game that should be a blowout can get away from the favored team in a hurry with regards to the scoreboard. A perfect example of that was the Monmouth/Ripon game this year. Monmouth won 38-35…seems like Ripon would be pretty tough. But, a look inside the numbers shows that the Scots outgained Ripon 520-330, kicked two FG’s from inside the Ripon 5, missed a longer FG, missed an XP, had a failed 2 pt conversion, and 7 of Ripon’s points came on the opening KOR. In reality, Monmouth should have won by at least 3 scores. However, a neutral observer would say the Redhawks gave MC all they could handle. Another example is the MC/St. Norbert game. The Scots came out flat and fell behind 10-0, then outscored SNC 31-12 over the last 3 quarters. I know the comparative scores thing doesn’t work, especially if that’s all you’re looking at.
The only reason I brought up the WW/Wartburg game was that neither team reached 300 total yards and I think MC’s offense would’ve had more success than Wartburg against WW. That’s not to say the Scots could beat WW, and certainly not MUC for that matter, but the game would have been in Monmouth and the Scots were very good at home. I really just wish they would have gotten a chance…that’s all. Maybe they would’ve gotten killed, maybe I’m still stinging over the Wartburg loss, maybe I just have a lot of confidence in my school. I’m not naive enough to be making any claims that MC would have been National Champs because Wartburg played a good game against WW, so whoa back on the craziness.
As far as the conference comment is concerned; I think I made a statement about Coach Bell recruiting talent to win on a National level instead of just trying to beat St. Norbert every year in one of my previous posts. Trust me, the thumping we took in ’05 at St. John’s changed that line of thinking…
Hey Cru, what is this passion Cru fans have about pointing out how few years UMHB has had a football program? I am not trying to be a wise guy, but what’s the point? Is your point that because it hasn’t been around as long, there isn’t as strong a network of alumi to help recruit? If that’s the point, I can see some logic to that, but I don’t know to what extent that is a factor.
No doubt they’ve been amazingly successful, a tribute to coaching and good kids coming through the program. I don’t share your feelings that UMHB was Stagg material this year. I know they had injuries, so maybe at full strength. But they showed in the UWW game that, across the board, which is the point I am trying to make to Scotties, they had just enough weaknesses to get beat in a game against a really sound team.
How sound was UWW? They made it to the National Championship, so they must be sound, right? Especially in their vaunted special teams, yet their All-America kicker missed 2 FG’s and they had a roughing the kicker call that extended a MUC drive.
Every team makes mistakes, even MUC and UWW, and I’m sure we’ll hear Whitewater fans grumbling about the missed FG’s, the INT, the roughing the kicker penalty, etc. I would still hesitate to call them weaknesses. They were weak for that particular game, but they were not weak as a whole. None of these teams are without weakness in one area or another. I think it’s more a matter of which team can compensate for their weaknesses with strengths in other aspects of the game. If the strengths outweigh the weaknesses, more times than not you will be successful.
To be honest, I felt like the UMHB/UWW game was a mismatch of styles. UMHB likes to run, UWW is very good at stopping it. Due to UMHB being too one dimensional UWW was able to impose their will. UWW seemed to be way more susceptible to the pass and that was not a strength of the Cru. Because the offense could not sustain any clock consuming drives, the defense was left on the field to suffer the consequences. That and Donovan really played well in the last two games.
We could spend hours talking about the strengths and weaknesses of each of the 235 teams in D3. It just really doesn’t matter because, at the end of the day, their is a 32 team tournament to sort it all out. I’m looking forward to next year.
I hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Scotties,
It’s been three days now, and I haven’t seen UWW fans grumbling about those things. I think it’s pretty admirable that you haven’t seen UWW fans moaning about the “what ifs”.
I agree that every team has weaknesses, the question is , how many weaknesses and how weak is the weakness.
My example is this. Our youth football league requires that every kid must play at least 8 plays-and kids that don’t progress enough get termed “minimum play” players as coaches have to find a way to get them in. The teams with fewer minimum play players were the teams that were most successful (and they probably had better coaching). The same goes for any level of football. How weak are the weaknesses, and how do you take advantage of it. This is why comparative scores are so misleading, because each match up is unique. And that’s how coaches separate themselves from the pack. Their value is how well they identify and exploit.
Overall UWW was very sound in all three areas, but everyone knew that their secondary was young-and that was the weakest part of their defense, and it was exploited early.
UWW’s field goal kicker is not a weakness, he simply had a bad game-it happens to the best of them.
Lastly, I am not giving any opinion about Monmouth because I haven’t seen them. My comments are in general to the overall question of how do teams step up to the championship level.
Merry Christmas to you and to all.
GoScotties
– “If the strengths outweigh the weaknesses, more times than not you will be successful.” BRILLIANT analysis!!
I’d invite you to go back & read post patterns, you’ll discover (and learn something) from UMHB posters themselves that they COULD pass the ball this year with Saenz compared with the QB from last year, a QB with an extremely weak arm…they even boasted in the days leading up to the game how un-one dimensional the Cru was this year. We learned again that this year that was more of the same…hot air!!
– “We could spend hours talking about the strengths and weaknesses of each of the 235 teams in D3.” Now, that would be fun…not!!
HSCoach,
Another small thing is outta of those you marked for Mount for returners next season, 3 of thos Seniors technically have another yr of eligibility. 2 of them starters. So They could come back with potentially 7 returning starters on O and 9 on D. I mean they still will have to fill that QB and RB spot but there are always good players waiting in the wings and with a D that returns 9 theres a littl more room for possible error on O. Not bashing your comment. I agree with it all. Just adding to it.
Thanks a lot to Toby taff for the insight on UMHB as well as GoScotties foe the info on Monmouth. It is always good to get a look into another D3 team, especially considering how difficult it is to follow and project teams for the upcoming year. Does anyone have any insight as to the replacements of the big names of this years stagg bowl, including Nate Kmic and Greg Micheli, as well as Jace Rindahl for UWW? Considering the productivity of Kmic for so long, the efficiency of Micheli in the Mount Union offense, and the leadership and play-making ability of Rindahl for the Warhawks, it would interesting to get an early look into the players stepping into those positions.
nathan:
I’m not trying to tell you something you don’t already know, so hold the condescending crap.
You can go back and read the post patterns as many times as you’d like…why invite me? I’m in agreement that UMHB was one dimensional smart guy, and I know the Cru fans tried to say they weren’t. If you read between the lines, I wasn’t suggesting that we analyze all 235 teams either oh brilliant one.
Also, I never said the kicker was a weakness, I said that they made mistakes that cost them the game on what was supposed to be their strength.
I’m done with this stupid debate. Until next year….
mikem17,
It’s not rocket science, stop trying to make it complicated. They need more time to build a dynasty, to build the facilities. I have said the following in many other posts.
# 1 UMHB needs their own stadium on campus like almost all teams in D3. I know Tiger Stadium seats over 10,000, but it’s not theirs, it’s not on campus; this will help with recruiting.
# 2 UMHB needs more balance on offense to go to the next step and to win it all.
The QB next year, Noak is a decent passer and a decent runner, we need a really good passer and runner for our offense.
# 3 Pass defense must get better. Stopping the run, well nobody can run against them so sustain it.
# 4 Coaching Staff is great, let’s get a passer and runner in at QB and re-work the offense. Given they have went to the shotgun but run most of the time out of it.
Mikem17; Do you understand now???
GoScotties,
You’re post sums it up pretty good. I agree 100%.
“To be honest, I felt like the UMHB/UWW game was a mismatch of styles. UMHB likes to run, UWW is very good at stopping it. Due to UMHB being too one dimensional UWW was able to impose their will. UWW seemed to be way more susceptible to the pass and that was not a strength of the Cru. Because the offense could not sustain any clock consuming drives, the defense was left on the field to suffer the consequences. That and Donovan really played well in the last two games”.
Thanks Cru.
My only question to you was what was the significance of the number of years the program has been in place. You addressed that question only with your first point-they don’t have their own stadium. No doubt a nice stadium and facilities would attract more recruits. UWW has added fantastic facilities over the last few years- as a result of their success.
I hope UMHB gets a stadium. By the way, I don’t think time builds a dynasty.
mikem,
You are entitled to your opinion.
word is mount will move shorts to QB next year, and it may also have terrence morring back at tailback. so while they aren’t likely to be micheli and kmic, they should do fine with a really veteran team at most other positions.
MU may look past SJF, a team that can beat them on their own turf, a team that plays a very tough regular season schedule and a team that with a few breaks in ’08, could have been 9-1 in the regular season. “Mark it down”…….MU loses ’09 opener.
mount doesn’t have much of a history of looking past teams, so i doubt that will happen in the 2009 season opener. if SJF can pull off a win, it won’t be because mount took them lightly.